On Fri, 27 Feb 2015 14:18:15 -0600
"T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@???> wrote:


> With respect to all, I think that a measure of objectivity is called
> for here. I think that because personality clashes that Debian's
> entire systemd discussion has lost any sense of reality long ago.

You know, T.J., I might just agree with you, *if* you can show me a
block diagram of the systemd ecosystem, *complete with interaction
lines as well as functional blocks*.

You know, like this:

http://troubleshooters.com/lpm/201202/images/email_arch_personal.png

Or these:

http://troubleshooters.com/lpm/200803/images/server_app.png
http://troubleshooters.com/lpm/200803/images/client_app.png

Or these:

http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/djbdns/images/mm_process_overview.png
http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/djbdns/images/mm_daemontools.png
http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/djbdns/images/mm_minimal_service.png
http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/djbdns/images/mm_dnscache_block_diagram.png
http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/djbdns/images/mm_tinydns_block_diagram.png

Or this:

http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/nullmailer/images/nullmailer_mm.png

But not the following, because it's boxes with no lines:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Systemd_components.svg/440px-Systemd_components.svg.png

Nor this, because it's obviously incomplete as a representation of the
systemd ecosphere:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/Linux_kernel_unified_hierarchy_cgroups_and_systemd.svg/440px-Linux_kernel_unified_hierarchy_cgroups_and_systemd.svg.png


Bottom line is this: If you make a modular system with thin interfaces
and sane components, somebody will make a block diagram representing it,
accurately, in its entirety.

It could be argued that the email, sockets, and djb software systems I
diagrammed were much simpler than systemd. Fair enough, but I'm one guy
doing this stuff in my spare time, not six guys getting paid full time
by Red Hat. I'm sure one of the geniuses Red Hat hired could have
diagrammed system accurately and completely. Heck, I often do that
*before* I write software, just so the system turns out architecturally
sound.

Let's see the block diagram. Prove systemd doesn't have grave
architectural problems.

SteveT

Steve Litt                *  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance