>> That leaves the 2% benefit of cgroups, whose benefit boils down to,
and anyway openrc supports cgroups ;)
( my 2 cents : and should be used in future versions of devuan ;)

>> when all the bullfeathers are removed, reaping zombies. Zombies were an
>> irritation to all of us, but we've lived with them for 15 years, and
>> their removal certainly doesn't justify a software V'ger.
>
> there is a bit more to cgroups than that but there is no reason another init
> manager can't perform the same task without becoming The Blob.
>
> --Gravis
>
> On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Steve Litt <slitt@???>
> wrote:
>>
>> [Sorry Gravis, I could find no shorter way to say this]
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 15:49:34 -0600
>> "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@???> wrote:
>>
>> > On Wed, 2015-02-25 at 13:11 -0800, Go Linux wrote:
>> > > This excellent analysis of the systemd debacle was just posted over
>> > > on FDN. Should be required reading IMO. Enjoy!
>> > >
>> > > http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=120652&p=570371
>> > >
>> > > golinux
>> > >
>> > I must respectfully disagree. I find the analysis to be very biased
>> > toward one side of the discussion,
>>
>> And the author tells us that. Now I'd like you to admit that you're
>> very biased toward the other side of the discussion. I'm proud to say
>> that I'm biased in the same direction as the author. So is the vast
>> majority of this mailing list, whose project was created in order to
>> choose one's init system without trashing the entire OS.
>>
>> > as well as creating their own
>> > definitions to fit their side.
>> >
>> > If something replaces init, it is by definition "an init system".
>>
>> So then, if I replace your car's radio by replacing the whole car, it
>> is by definition a "car radio"?
>>
>> > Whether it does more or less than the previous init is immaterial to
>> > that simple fact.
>>
>> I find no credible element of truth in the preceding sentence. But
>> anyway, disregarding the definition of "init system", the author is
>> dead bang right on:
>>
>> * Debian isn't other distros
>> * no one—has ever articulated a value proposition for systemd that
>> adequately addresses its implementation costs.
>>
>> About "Debian isn't other distros", he characterized the situation
>> exactly right, plus the fact that when Debian moved, all the Debian
>> descendents moved with it (except a couple that were born to exclude
>> systemd, like DNG). And, his assertion was even more right back in
>> September, when many of the brains behind DNG were helping out with
>> Debian.
>>
>> About value proposition vs cost: 90% of the value ennunciated by
>> systemd fans boil down to "it boots faster", because any benefit
>> achieved by socket activation and the like could be simulated by
>> strategically placed sleep statements in any other init. And keep in
>> mind that if boot speed and reliability are truly important to one, one
>> would be unlikely to start the number and type of services that would
>> be problematic to boot speed. AND, although I've gotten systemd to boot
>> in 4 seconds on a spinning platter, it took 30 seconds after that to
>> get into the Desktop Environment, because a lot of boot tasks including
>> networking happened in the desktop environment. AND, I got Epoch to
>> boot in 7 seconds, and runit to boot in 11 seconds, on the same
>> hardware, and they both took less time to get to the GUI.
>>
>> The other 8% have to do with making the GUI responsive to changes in
>> the system, and vice versa. Nice, but not essential, and not worth a 15
>> major component monolith tied together with thick, not well documented
>> interfaces. Not only that, but there are plenty of other ways to get
>> that feature without gumming up the system by eliminating advantages of
>> interchangeable parts.
>>
>> That leaves the 2% benefit of cgroups, whose benefit boils down to,
>> when all the bullfeathers are removed, reaping zombies. Zombies were an
>> irritation to all of us, but we've lived with them for 15 years, and
>> their removal certainly doesn't justify a software V'ger.
>>
>> SteveT
>>

>> Steve Litt                *  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
>> Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

>>
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