On Sun, 22 Feb 2015 20:11:12 +0000 (UTC)
Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika@???> wrote:

Hi Jonathan,

I rearranged the order of your post...

>
> Anyhow, if any of those three are missing under the planned system,
> I'd be happy to help try to rectify the situation. 

That's supremely cool. Discoverability is *everything*!!!

> Hello,A few questions about the GUI for Devuan...
> 1) In the default desktop environment for Devuan, will there be an
> icon or other discoverable item the user can click to see a list of
> available wifi network connections?

I can do a lot of the non-gui stuff on this, should we decide that
NetworkManager and Wicd aren't sufficient.

Basically, "iwlist scanning" yields the list, complete with everything
needed to show the security type and signal strength. wpa-supplicant
and the *horribly documented* wpa_cli to make and break connections and
handle passwords.

I'd envision this as a python-Tk program (connection time is huge
compared to executation time, so performance isn't an issue). There's
no reason for this system to use dbus.


> 2) When the DE's main menu pops
> up, will the user be able to _immediately_ start typing characters
> and see a list of applications filtered to match what is being
> typed?

Dmenu does exactly that:

http://tools.suckless.org/dmenu/

Dmenu is a productivity fountain without peer, that can be installed on
*any* Linux. I wouldn't be caught dead without an easy hotkey to Dmenu.
I tweak my dmenu to scroll vertically down the screen instead of
horizontally across the top. I also tweak it for max visibility
foreground and background, for quick recognition. If you know the name
of the executable and don't need to pass it arguments, dmenu is the
king of discoverability.

I also user UMENU:

http://troubleshooters.com/umenu/index.htm

UMENU is a spectacular menu program with single keystroke actuation and
prompted argument substitution (so you can input arguments). It can be
used not only for a "start menu", but also to bolt a discoverable
front-end any complex command. However, UMENU has a nightmare
deployment process, so less than 100 people use it. Sooner or later,
I'll rewrite it to use something other than its current EMDL, so it can
be easily deployed anywhere. I'll probably use a
directory/subdirectory/file config hierarchy like djb uses.

> 3) In the default desktop environment for Devuan, when the user
> clicks the "Super" key (often has the Windows icon on it) will the
> DEs main menu pop up?

I think the preceding is just a matter of hotkey assignment, and of
course is a good idea.

> I put these three features in order of
> importance for newcomers and non-technical users to have control over
> their machines.  #1 is vital because it makes the entire
> knowledge-base on the web (potentially) available for users so they
> can troubleshoot problems outside of network connectivity, even if
> they haven't a clue what an ESSID is. 
> #2 is important because
> responsive natural language searches are ubiquitous, simple to
> understand, explain, and remember, especially when compared with
> branches of app categories (which are often quite arbitrary). 

One of the executables that comes with dmenu can take any sorted list
and intelligently reduce with each user keystroke. Dmenu is modular, so
one executable searches the execution path, delivering a sorted list of
executables to the second executable, which reduces the list based on
user keystrokes. The selection then gets processed by a third
executable to run the program. Bottom line, dmenu could
conceivably be used for a lot more than running programs.

> #3 is
> certainly not vital at all, but its existence is a good indicator
> that the developers take usability seriously. You may be able to
> guess that I currently use Gnome 3 under Debian, because Gnome 3
> includes all three features that I list.  But please don't be
> mistaken-- I'm not looking to pitch Devuan on Gnome 3.  Rather, I
> have neglected to uninstall Gnome 3 because as long as it does those
> three things it fulfills my needs as a user.  I'd much prefer to use
> a distro like Devuan, where its community is reflecting upon the
> long-term maintainability of the system (and closely inspecting its
> source code).  As long as it has a default DE with the three features
> above, I can switch over with virtually no pain.  But more
> importantly, with those three features an entire class of
> non-technical users can have a safe, sane, and secure place from
> which to launch Chromium.  I'd bet a large chunk of Lenovo's userbase
> has a desire for just such a system atm. :)

I hear you Jonathan! For new users and people whose core competancy
isn't computers, discoverability is king, and discoverability is
exactly what your three wishes provide. Moreover, discoverability is a
timesaver for even the most experienced users, because nobody memorizes
everything, and we all use new software sometimes.

I can also help.

SteveT

Steve Litt                *  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance