Le 20/02/2015 13:48, Martijn Dekkers a

      écrit :

I would say +1 for everything that is written with

                  this e-mail and above. However, there's one thing
                  here,

there are more people running servers than people

                  running linux on their desktops, so IMHO devuan should
                  first focus on the servers. 

I strongly believe that if we manage to pull together a

          kick-ass, up-to-date, and rock-solid server build that does
          not require systemd, we will see serious uptake from many,
          many users.

        Guys, I don't think there is contradiction between server and
    desktop. There is a difference in the user base and installed
    applications, not in the OS. dbus and udev/eudev/mdev/vdev/ are just
    useful services which make life easier if they are not poeterized,
    but could remain optional. I think most desktop users expect these
    services, but they understand it is not the top priority of the
    devs.

        By do-it-all desktops, I was targetting Gnome and KDE, not Xfce.
    It is too bad that xfce4 is now contaminated, But in my installed
    Wheezy servers and desktop, it is not. I've no complaint against it.
    Is there anything new in the Jessie version, appart from infection?

        Concerning dbus, there is a need for publisher/subscriber
    communication on the desktop. But I wonder why people have
    developped dbus instead of using a ready-made, well-tested,
    lightweight, language-agnostic middleware? Yes it exsts; there's at
    least one, ZeroMQ.

        Didier