On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 08:00:03 +0000
KatolaZ <katolaz@???> wrote:

> I am sorry but revolutions are not cheap, and every time you choose to
> go for something then you have to give up on something else. I really
> hope Debian will reconsider the systemd nonsense, but I suspect that
> the probability for this event to occur is practically zero.

I agree for several reasons, not the least of which is that most of the
Debianistas enlightened enough to see that King Systemd has no clothes
are all in *our* project now.

> Hence, I
> must conclude that Debian and Devuan will most probably not merge any
> time soon, and will most probably keep diverging instead, as it has
> already appened with Mandrake, SuSe, Ubuntu, and as it happened for
> Debian, back in the days, which effectively diverged from *nothing* :)

Precisely! Additionally, I think there's a large contingent of Devuan
supporters, and I'm one of them, who would never go back to Debian,
even if Debian did a 180 on systemd, because we were thoroughly
disgusted by the way the Debian "community" conducted the entire affair.

So KatolaZ, I agree with you 1000%: an eventual re-merge with Debian
will never happen: We burned that bridge several months ago, and I, for
one, am glad to see that bridge in flames. Even if Devuan somehow died
in its infancy, I'd *never* go back to Debian.

In light of this, I agree with GoLinux that Devuan should get something
out there soon. Call it a prototype. Call it an experiment. Even if it
doesn't support Gnome or NetworkManager, and you need to follow a 20
step process to set up networking, get *something* out there. I'd like
to quote Eric Raymond's words from "The Cathedral and the Bizaar":

=================================================
When you start community-building, what you need to be able to present
is a plausible promise. Your program doesn't have to work particularly
well. It can be crude, buggy, incomplete and poorly documented. What it
must not fail to do is (a) run, and (b) convince potential
co-developers that it can be evolved into something really neat in the
forseeable future.
=================================================

Finally, two words to all you people working to get Devuan working:

THANK YOU!!!

SteveT

Steve Litt                *  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance