> well, here's what _can_ assure that the transition will be at least
> not complete hell and requiring a total abandonment of devuan for
> debian and vice-versa (i.e. a total and complete wipe-down of a hard
> drive and a reinstall from scratch):

Why do you say that? I use parts of
stable/testing/unstable/experimental debian with parts of ubuntu and
mint just fine without having to clear my system. Why would i need to
wipe it for Devuan?

--Gravis


On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 8:16 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
<lkcl@???> wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 8:12 AM, KatolaZ <katolaz@???> wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 04:01:58PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>
>>> is it the intent of the devuan team to:
>>>
>>> (a) create a "fork" which will always, at all times, without fail,
>>> require that a debian repo be placed in /etc/apt/sources.list
>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>> (b) create a "fork" of the *entire debian package repository*, such
>>> that it will end up over time to be as completely incompatible with
>>> debian as ubuntu is today.
>
>> Luke, I don't know what Devuan will be in 5 years, I don't even know
>> if it will still exist by then, and I think nobody can assure you that
>> the transition to and from Devuan from and to anything else will be
>> smooth and easy and straightforward and painless.
>
> well, here's what _can_ assure that the transition will be at least
> not complete hell and requiring a total abandonment of devuan for
> debian and vice-versa (i.e. a total and complete wipe-down of a hard
> drive and a reinstall from scratch):
>
> you - the devuan team - can choose option (a) above (a fork that
> always simply replaces key packages and nothing else) instead of
> option (b) above (a fork that is equivalent to ubuntu and is
> *intended* to become completely incompatible with debian).
>
>> Before a few months ago I had never thought that I could ever been
>> forced to leave Debian after about 15 years of using and loving it.
>
> likewise.
>
>> I
>> hope that eventually we will see a happy ending to this story, but I
>> don't have good feelings about that. I am concretely scared that the
>> whole Debian project might crumble, piece by piece, under the axe of
>> "progress" and "usability", and with it most of its derivatives and
>> companions.
>
> well, that's why i feel that it should be obvious that it is the
> responsibility and duty of the devuan team to implement option (a) as
> a means to replace key strategic packages with ones that you feel will
> ensure that debian may be made stable through the simple process of
> adding a single line to /etc/apt/sources.list and issuing an upgrade
> command.
>
>> For me it's either having a (possibly Debian-like) functioning and
>> fuss-free GNU/Linux, which I can tinker with as like and I have done
>> so far, or going somewhere else, e.g. to FreeBSD.
>
> that's an option i'm giving serious consideration to.
>
> l.
> _______________________________________________
> Dng mailing list
> Dng@???
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

--Gravis


On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 8:16 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
<lkcl@???> wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 8:12 AM, KatolaZ <katolaz@???> wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 04:01:58PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>
>>> is it the intent of the devuan team to:
>>>
>>> (a) create a "fork" which will always, at all times, without fail,
>>> require that a debian repo be placed in /etc/apt/sources.list
>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>> (b) create a "fork" of the *entire debian package repository*, such
>>> that it will end up over time to be as completely incompatible with
>>> debian as ubuntu is today.
>
>> Luke, I don't know what Devuan will be in 5 years, I don't even know
>> if it will still exist by then, and I think nobody can assure you that
>> the transition to and from Devuan from and to anything else will be
>> smooth and easy and straightforward and painless.
>
> well, here's what _can_ assure that the transition will be at least
> not complete hell and requiring a total abandonment of devuan for
> debian and vice-versa (i.e. a total and complete wipe-down of a hard
> drive and a reinstall from scratch):
>
> you - the devuan team - can choose option (a) above (a fork that
> always simply replaces key packages and nothing else) instead of
> option (b) above (a fork that is equivalent to ubuntu and is
> *intended* to become completely incompatible with debian).
>
>> Before a few months ago I had never thought that I could ever been
>> forced to leave Debian after about 15 years of using and loving it.
>
> likewise.
>
>> I
>> hope that eventually we will see a happy ending to this story, but I
>> don't have good feelings about that. I am concretely scared that the
>> whole Debian project might crumble, piece by piece, under the axe of
>> "progress" and "usability", and with it most of its derivatives and
>> companions.
>
> well, that's why i feel that it should be obvious that it is the
> responsibility and duty of the devuan team to implement option (a) as
> a means to replace key strategic packages with ones that you feel will
> ensure that debian may be made stable through the simple process of
> adding a single line to /etc/apt/sources.list and issuing an upgrade
> command.
>
>> For me it's either having a (possibly Debian-like) functioning and
>> fuss-free GNU/Linux, which I can tinker with as like and I have done
>> so far, or going somewhere else, e.g. to FreeBSD.
>
> that's an option i'm giving serious consideration to.
>
> l.
> _______________________________________________
> Dng mailing list
> Dng@???
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng