KatolaZ is 100% correct. Software distributions are remarkably
evolutionary in nature and while it's possible to co-exist, it's a
useful populous and funding that keeps distros alive. Devuan is the
divergence of Debian user base so to stay alive we need to increase
our number of useful people as fast as possible and/or get funded.
While appearance doesn't count for much once you are invested, it's an
important attracting element. The question is, who are we trying to
attract that is best for our survival and what will we do to attract
them. I'm not sure how many will actually switch to avoid systemd but
they will be our users if we release soon enough.

Like KatolaZ wrote, "the whole Debian project might crumble" and the
truth is Devuan may be the acid rain deepening the cracks that have
appeared on the stone statue we know as Debian. As long as we dont
make absurdly radical changes, it should be easy for derivatives and
independent packagers to switch to the Devuan base.

--Gravis


On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 3:12 AM, KatolaZ <katolaz@???> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 04:01:58PM +0000, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>
> [cut]
>
>> so. to clarify:
>>
>> is it the intent of the devuan team to:
>>
>> (a) create a "fork" which will always, at all times, without fail,
>> require that a debian repo be placed in /etc/apt/sources.list
>>
>> or
>>
>> (b) create a "fork" of the *entire debian package repository*, such
>> that it will end up over time to be as completely incompatible with
>> debian as ubuntu is today.
>>
>> this is very very important to make absolutely and unambiguously
>> clear on the web site, as well as to developers who may wish to get
>> involved, _and_ to end-users.
>>
>> to illustrate this, whilst i am sure that you have the confidence and
>> the desire to continue this project - and i say this *entirely without
>> prejudice* - it is perfectly reasonable and rational and logical to
>> surmise that at some point the devuan project _could_ conceivably
>> fail, forcing people to reconsider what they are doing, *or*, much
>> more benignly, end-users may, for reasons which are entirely their
>> choice, *choose* to return to debian.
>>
>> now, if it has not been made clear that an end-user, once they are on
>> devuan, may *NEVER* return to debian because there is no transition
>> path, they're going to be pissed. i feel that, this, therefore,
>> should be something that is discussed and made absolutely clear.
>
> Luke, I don't know what Devuan will be in 5 years, I don't even know
> if it will still exist by then, and I think nobody can assure you that
> the transition to and from Devuan from and to anything else will be
> smooth and easy and straightforward and painless.
>
> Before a few months ago I had never thought that I could ever been
> forced to leave Debian after about 15 years of using and loving it. I
> hope that eventually we will see a happy ending to this story, but I
> don't have good feelings about that. I am concretely scared that the
> whole Debian project might crumble, piece by piece, under the axe of
> "progress" and "usability", and with it most of its derivatives and
> companions.
>
> For me it's either having a (possibly Debian-like) functioning and
> fuss-free GNU/Linux, which I can tinker with as like and I have done
> so far, or going somewhere else, e.g. to FreeBSD.
>
> HND
>
> KatolaZ
>
> --
> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
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