On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:54:26 +0100
Patrick Erdmann <pe@???> wrote:

> On 12.02.2015 15:35, Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 06:21:00 +0000
> > KatolaZ <katolaz@???> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 07:33:51AM +0200, Martijn Dekkers wrote:
> >>
> >> [cut]
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Whilst I am still utterly amazed with how awesome Linux servers
> >>> are, I don't think we will ever get there with desktops.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Agree. That's exactly why, IMHO, we should focus on what GNU/Linux
> >> does better, and refrain from gladly and blindly embracing the last
> >> miscarriage-piece-of-software "for the good of the large masses of
> >> desktop users". Simply put, there are no large masses of desktop
> >> users, and IMHO never will be, so whenever something is proposed
> >> for the good of these non-existing masses, an alarm should ring in
> >> our heads.....
> >
> > Well said KatolaZ. If they want eye-candy and software that
> > incorporates human confusion, they should use Windows or Mac. For
> > the person who hasn't resigned himself to being an idiot, Linux has
> > Openbox, Windowmaker, LXDE, and a whole bunch of other
> > straightforward user interfaces.
> >
> > That being said, this *is* the *Devuan* list, and our charter is
> > systemd-free Debian, so even though I personally think Gnome, KDE
> > and NetworkManager are stupid, we have to provide them.
>
> Maybe not.
>
> Just think about that: If most of "our" Work / Lifetime is spent to
> make KDE, Gnome etc. compatible, possibly it would be better to
> provide _one_ DE and stop support for Gnome and stuff. As you said,
> there are alternatives. Maybe we just need enough time to prove the
> world that systemd was a wrong decission.

Hi Patrick,

Speaking just for myself, I can't disagree with what you wrote above.

As long as Devuan doesn't insert poison pills *preventing* sane,
non-systemd-dependent window manager/desktop environments (WMDE) from
working, guys like us can install the WMDE of our choice.

SteveT

Steve Litt                *  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance