Wont paying tax and to support a government that uses deathpenalty as
a punishment makes every person techincally a murderer? Does it make a
difference who inject the needle or pulls the electricity switch?

2015-02-07 13:20 GMT+01.00, Alec Spier <alec.spier@???>:
> Huh?? ... what???? Whaaaa????
>
> All im putring forth is that murder for hire to protect some addresses in
> the name of money is morally wrong from my perspective. If someone has a
> valid criticism here Im open ears and arms.
> --
> Sent from my Android phone with mail.com Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> Damian <i3inary@???> wrote:
>>
>> i like to imagine that shiva taught cody how to breakdance and he is
>> windmilling like a mofo.  all destruction leads to creation...each time
>> something is destroyed (from ideas to the physical) we build again imbuing
>> our creations with and greater intelligence each time...the patterns that
>> i observe seem to suggest that we need destruction to increase the
>> resolution of phi in each creation cycle.  we need more codys fearlessly
>> busting down the technical, philosophical, economic, social, and
>> political, decaying yet comfortable, falsehoods just as we need micro
>> organisms to breakdown dead or decaying organic matter.  stagnation in
>> these areas of human culture has weakened the species over the millennia
>> to the point that it may have crossed a threshold of fragility and it
>> seems that the fractal manifests the system busting entities to help to
>> accelerate creation by destruction and move us into a robust upgraded
>> human culture.
>>
>> don't hate the player hate the game...recognize your cosmic role and dance
>> your spirit's dance...you need no ones permission or approval and you will
>> be in bliss with the wind at your back.  if you are standing in your truth
>> then push the envelope and watch it bend beyond any logic or understanding
>> of any human.
>>
>> the more one focuses their consciousness on judgement of other beings the
>> thicker and higher one is building the walls of their own metaphysical
>> prison.
>>
>> afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted.
>>
>> if you don't know what you don't know then how much do you actually know?
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:12 AM, Alec Spier <alec.spier@???>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Cody,
>>>
>>> Alright I'll admit I've not really considered arguments against my
>>> position as long as my position is that it is immoral to kill another
>>> person for the quest of power and control. I'm not a philosopher or
>>> theologian and I am not well-versed in philosophical debate and maybe
>>> I've got a rigid view of right and wrong. However I have a compass inside
>>> me which points to what I personally think is right and wrong and that's
>>> all I've got. If you don't mind giving me something clear that I can
>>> understand why Ross's actions were justified please give them to me. I'm
>>> not stupid or stubborn, but the moral justification of his actions aren't
>>> apparent to me and they seem to be overt to you. If you've got a way you
>>> can put it so that I might understand you I'm willing to listen.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2015 at 1:27 AM
>>> From: "Cody R Wilson" <codywilson@???>
>>> To: "System undo crew" <unsystem@???>
>>> Subject: Re: [unSYSTEM] Silk Road Trial is starting.
>>> Alec, it's because you've never actually considered the arguments against
>>> your position. Where to begin? Nietzsche on free will and responsibility
>>> as the tools of the theologian? The instinct of life and will to power?
>>> It's there in Sartre too. As far back as Spinoza.
>>>
>>> Free men are the makers of their own morality and independent, long-range
>>> will.
>>>
>>> JG, yes naivete is what continues to strike me too from all of this.
>>> Surely we were all shocked he was caught in San Francisco. I want to
>>> think he was just riding the dragon. Caught up in an incredible and
>>> growing singularity, a composition that had always exceeded him.
>>>
>>> How to the understand the daily beyond-the-law of his situation? I am
>>> still not making of him a hero.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:21 AM, Alec Spier <alec.spier@???>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't really understand the ambiguity here. He's down with killing
>>>> people whom may not have even been the ones that threatened him. How
>>>> confident can you be in your offsec that you can pinpoint someone from
>>>> their handle via Tor and be sure it's not a patsy being set up?
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2015 at 12:04 AM
>>>> From: "Alec Spier" <alec.spier@???>
>>>> To: unsystem@???
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [unSYSTEM] Silk Road Trial is starting.
>>>> He could have just said "ehh.... Well fuck this has gotten too hairy.
>>>> I'm just going to send all coins to different addresses and in a month
>>>> or two post an option for anybody to get their coins back with their SR
>>>> credentials. If anybody doesn't get their coins I'll just pay them out
>>>> of my jillions. Time to be on my way with a plane ticket to
>>>> INSERT-NATION and be on my way with my gazillions and gazillions of
>>>> dollars"
>>>>
>>>> You don't kill people. It is that simple. Killing people is wrong unless
>>>> it's absolutely, entirely necessary, and as demonstrated above it wasn't
>>>> necessary, he could have walked away a free man, his greed was his
>>>> downfall and he deserves to be in prison for attempted murder.
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 at 11:49 PM
>>>> From: "Juan S. Galt" <eljuangalt@???>
>>>> To: "System undo crew" <unsystem@???>
>>>> Subject: Re: [unSYSTEM] Silk Road Trial is starting.
>>>> Fundamental there are 3 choices human being have in the face of
>>>> conflict.
>>>>
>>>> A) seek to find a win-win scenario. This means seek to establish
>>>> Universal* (your word Cody, not mine) rules of interaction. This is what
>>>> Bitcoin IS. A set of rules by which to exchange value. This is also what
>>>> the internet is, a set of rules by which to transfer & exchange
>>>> information.
>>>>
>>>> B) Seek to impose your will on the other regardless of their
>>>> preferences, aka win-lose. This is how the state operates and what they
>>>> are doing to everyone in prison and everyone harmed by the war on drugs,
>>>> and the pharma monopolies. This path is one of power struggles and
>>>> violence. Did Ross act unethically for threatening violence, when the
>>>> alternative was being caged by the state? Given that the state is the
>>>> one raising the stakes of this poker game, and without them this would
>>>> be a non issue, than it is obvious to me they must enter the moral
>>>> calculation.
>>>>
>>>> C) avoid interaction. This one has its limits ofcourse and is an
>>>> extension of B. It could be argued that Ross is responsible for
>>>> attempted murder simply because he made the choices that landed him in
>>>> that situation, for even getting involved with building Silk Road and
>>>> setting him self up to be in that situation.
>>>>
>>>> You see, blackmail does not simply go away once you pay them off. The
>>>> attacker can keep coming back, and to not comply in Ross's situation
>>>> could have been life in prison. What would you have done Adam? what
>>>> alternatives?
>>>>
>>>> Yes he ended up there regardless, though so far he has not been charged
>>>> with attempted murder.
>>>>
>>>> Ultimately, if Ross is guilty of anything, I think it is of Naivety. Had
>>>> he encrypted his journal and named it "Cat pictures"... or not used his
>>>> gmail with his full name on it... maybe than this would be a different
>>>> story.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps he should have waited for decentralized markets to emerge.
>>>>
>>>> Given all of this, was he not aware of the state's brutality?
>>>>
>>>> And I must ask, did his friends and family not warn him of the ruthless
>>>> beast that writes the laws? This counts regardless of whether they knew
>>>> or not what he was up to.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Adam B. Levine
>>>> <adam@???> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Alec, I'm pretty sure you just got cursed by Cody Wilson!
>>>>>
>>>>> Adam B. Levine
>>>>> Editor-in-Chief
>>>>> Let's Talk Bitcoin!
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@???>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> May you be faced with a terrible choice, Spier. You should be slower
>>>>>> to second-guess him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 6, 2015 8:07 PM, "Alec Spier" <alec.spier@???>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://voluntary.net/bitmarkets/
>>>>>>> ^^ like this as theres support for Tor and Bitmessage. If we could
>>>>>>> get the openbazaar arbitration scheme integrated or rep-based
>>>>>>> arbiters as optional it would be superior to both current products.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cody: "Ross may have acted unethically in his actions. But we should
>>>>>>> consider that he was supremely ethical as well."
>>>>>>> Actions speak louder than words... maybe I misunderstood this
>>>>>>> statement but it sounds a bit chickenshit honestly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 at 6:33 PM
>>>>>>> From: "Cody R Wilson" <codywilson@???>
>>>>>>> To: "System undo crew" <unsystem@???>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [unSYSTEM] Silk Road Trial is starting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Adam, yes I'll do it. I don't want you to think I'm avoiding you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Circling back to your point about tyranny's obsolescence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I want to talk about soft tyranny and State power's abstract and
>>>>>>> constitutive dimension. Its construction of the individual subject as
>>>>>>> a political unit. There are walls to tear down other than the
>>>>>>> physical. That's why I took the time to do this Foundation song and
>>>>>>> dance. The moral majority in Bitcoin is hideous and due a real
>>>>>>> reckoning.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regarding disruption without alternative,  I'm sure it's clear I cast
>>>>>>> my lot with the secret complicity all people have with the disaster.
>>>>>>> Take the world financial and the sovereign debt games for examples.
>>>>>>> We all know no real break from this circus comes without a reset and
>>>>>>> some hard landings. Alternatives or no.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We're all allergic to this overwhelming power. We're all praying to
>>>>>>> see something, anything else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 6, 2015 6:22 PM, "Adam B. Levine" <adam@???>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Firstly, I've not discounted the value of openbazaar. With any luck
>>>>>>>> it will be vibrant and successful and copied. The markets will be
>>>>>>>> black and we may rejoice. Supposing it all goes down that way, do
>>>>>>>> you really stop being a liberal?"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have no problem with black markets, my point is that by just
>>>>>>>> allowing projects like this to emerge they naturally obsolete the
>>>>>>>> monopoly of the state and make it impossible to have most forms of
>>>>>>>> tyranical government because the government isn't a party to the
>>>>>>>> transactions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If on the other hand we emphasize the disruptive nature and
>>>>>>>> antagonize the status quo without actually building solutions on the
>>>>>>>> tech that is now available we'll find it illegal and then while it
>>>>>>>> will still be continued by people willing to break the law the
>>>>>>>> progress will slow down exponentially and the utility will drop to a
>>>>>>>> fraction of what it would be if it was not just disruptive but also
>>>>>>>> obviously too useful to fight.  You might say this is good because
>>>>>>>> it forces the hand of the state, I think that's a really short
>>>>>>>> sighted point of view given things are naturally being obsoleted as
>>>>>>>> we continue to build.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seems like we've all made our points, Cody did you want to come on
>>>>>>>> Let's Talk Bitcoin! to chat on this and related topics?  I think
>>>>>>>> it's a very relevant discussion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Adam B. Levine
>>>>>>>> Editor-in-Chief
>>>>>>>> Let's Talk Bitcoin!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Cody R Wilson
>>>>>>>> <codywilson@???> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Firstly, I've not discounted the value of openbazaar. With any luck
>>>>>>>>> it will be vibrant and successful and copied. The markets will be
>>>>>>>>> black and we may rejoice. Supposing it all goes down that way, do
>>>>>>>>> you really stop being a liberal?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This thread was about Ross' Trial and now judgment, and ethical
>>>>>>>>> questions like yours which were not entirely rhetorical. The
>>>>>>>>> conversation became about morality and murder.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I say a militant ethics is required, and bad subjects necessary, to
>>>>>>>>> depose the state-form. A great place to start examining your head
>>>>>>>>> is with your acceptance of universal morality, which I offer is as
>>>>>>>>> much a "product" as Swiss cheese.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ross may have acted unethically in his actions. But we should
>>>>>>>>> consider that he was supremely ethical as well.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 6, 2015 5:52 PM, "Adam B. Levine" <adam@???>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The gun thing?  As mentioned, you seem to take on the mission of
>>>>>>>>>> proving that the state can't actually enforce their monopolies of
>>>>>>>>>> control as being the entire job. That is great but again only
>>>>>>>>>> demonstrates that the illusion is an illusion, it does not provide
>>>>>>>>>> any alternatives or solutions.  Things like OpenBazaar are actual
>>>>>>>>>> solutions so that when the current paradigm falls apart there are
>>>>>>>>>> better systems not just hypothetically theoretical but actually
>>>>>>>>>> working in real life before we needed them.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What good is it destroying the existing paradigm if you've got
>>>>>>>>>> nothing better to replace it with?  Decentralized tools that
>>>>>>>>>> enable p2p interactions and commerce without a trusted third party
>>>>>>>>>> seem to solve that.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So aren't projects like what Brian and I are working neccesary
>>>>>>>>>> alternatives for when people come around to your way of seeing
>>>>>>>>>> things?  I just don't get the whole point out the problem but shit
>>>>>>>>>> on attempts at building something different and better thing.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do you really not see the difference between openbazaar and silk
>>>>>>>>>> road?  They are structured very differently.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Adam B. Levine
>>>>>>>>>> Editor-in-Chief
>>>>>>>>>> Let's Talk Bitcoin!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Brian Hoffman
>>>>>>>>>> <brian@???> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> How many have you guys sold? I feel like I haven't heard about it
>>>>>>>>>>> since it came out. Seems irrelevant.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 6, 2015, at 6:42 PM, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@???>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you hear me sighing?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Take DD's little Ghost Gunner. At once a reversion, a baiting of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the state regulatory imagination into overdrive, and the
>>>>>>>>>>>> literalization of its own nightmare. We understand the spirit of
>>>>>>>>>>>> terror.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So, no. I'm casting all these pearls because so many of YOU have
>>>>>>>>>>>> become them, and you don't have to mettle to stand in judgment
>>>>>>>>>>>> of Ulbricht.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 6, 2015 5:33 PM, "Washington Sanchez"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <washington.sanchez@???> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Meet terror with terror..."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What a skilful use of the leviathan's ideological hegemony to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> justify a corrupt conscience. You are not merely emulating
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their tactics, you have become them. How disappointing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing
>>>>>>> list: http://unsystem.net
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Cody R. Wilson
>>> codywilson@???
>>>
>>> The University of Texas School of Law
>>> Class of 2014
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>>
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--
Mvh Ben Johansen