Right on.

On February 6, 2015 10:27:13 PM PST, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@???> wrote:
>Alec, it's because you've never actually considered the arguments
>against
>your position. Where to begin? Nietzsche on free will and
>responsibility as
>the tools of the theologian? The instinct of life and will to power?
>It's
>there in Sartre too. As far back as Spinoza.
>
>Free men are the makers of their own morality and independent,
>long-range
>will.
>
>JG, yes naivete is what continues to strike me too from all of this.
>Surely
>we were all shocked he was caught in San Francisco. I want to think he
>was
>just riding the dragon. Caught up in an incredible and growing
>singularity,
>a composition that had always exceeded him.
>
>How to the understand the daily beyond-the-law of his situation? I am
>still
>not making of him a hero.
>
>On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 12:21 AM, Alec Spier <alec.spier@???>
>wrote:
>
>> I don't really understand the ambiguity here. He's down with killing
>> people whom may not have even been the ones that threatened him. How
>> confident can you be in your offsec that you can pinpoint someone
>from
>> their handle via Tor and be sure it's not a patsy being set up?
>>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, February 07, 2015 at 12:04 AM
>> *From:* "Alec Spier" <alec.spier@???>
>> *To:* unsystem@???
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [unSYSTEM] Silk Road Trial is starting.
>> He could have just said "ehh.... Well fuck this has gotten too
>hairy.
>> I'm just going to send all coins to different addresses and in a
>month or
>> two post an option for anybody to get their coins back with their SR
>> credentials. If anybody doesn't get their coins I'll just pay them
>out of
>> my jillions. Time to be on my way with a plane ticket to
>INSERT-NATION and
>> be on my way with my gazillions and gazillions of dollars"
>>
>> You don't kill people. It *is* that simple. Killing people is wrong
>> unless it's absolutely, entirely necessary, and as demonstrated above
>it
>> wasn't necessary, he could have walked away a free man, his greed was
>his
>> downfall and he deserves to be in prison for attempted murder.
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, February 06, 2015 at 11:49 PM
>> *From:* "Juan S. Galt" <eljuangalt@???>
>> *To:* "System undo crew" <unsystem@???>
>> *Subject:* Re: [unSYSTEM] Silk Road Trial is starting.
>> Fundamental there are 3 choices human being have in the face of
>> conflict.
>>
>> A) seek to find a win-win scenario. This means seek to establish
>> Universal* (your word Cody, not mine) rules of interaction. This is
>what
>> Bitcoin IS. A set of rules by which to exchange value. This is also
>what
>> the internet is, a set of rules by which to transfer & exchange
>information.
>>
>> B) Seek to impose your will on the other regardless of their
>preferences,
>> aka win-lose. This is how the state operates and what they are doing
>to
>> everyone in prison and everyone harmed by the war on drugs, and the
>pharma
>> monopolies. This path is one of power struggles and violence. Did
>Ross act
>> unethically for threatening violence, when the alternative was being
>caged
>> by the state? Given that the state is the one raising the stakes of
>this
>> poker game, and without them this would be a non issue, than it is
>obvious
>> to me they must enter the moral calculation.
>>
>> C) avoid interaction. This one has its limits ofcourse and is an
>extension
>> of B. It could be argued that Ross is responsible for attempted
>murder
>> simply because he made the choices that landed him in that situation,
>for
>> even getting involved with building Silk Road and setting him self up
>to be
>> in that situation.
>>
>> You see, blackmail does not simply go away once you pay them off. The
>> attacker can keep coming back, and to not comply in Ross's situation
>could
>> have been life in prison. What would you have done Adam? what
>alternatives?
>>
>> Yes he ended up there regardless, though so far he has not been
>charged
>> with attempted murder.
>>
>> Ultimately, if Ross is guilty of anything, I think it is of Naivety.
>Had
>> he encrypted his journal and named it "Cat pictures"... or not used
>his
>> gmail with his full name on it... maybe than this would be a
>different
>> story.
>>
>> Perhaps he should have waited for decentralized markets to emerge.
>>
>> Given all of this, was he not aware of the state's brutality?
>>
>> And I must ask, did his friends and family not warn him of the
>ruthless
>> beast that writes the laws? This counts regardless of whether they
>knew or
>> not what he was up to.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Adam B. Levine
><adam@???>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey Alec, I'm pretty sure you just got cursed by Cody Wilson!
>>>
>>> Adam B. Levine
>>> Editor-in-Chief
>>> Let's Talk Bitcoin! <http://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Cody R Wilson
><codywilson@???>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> May you be faced with a terrible choice, Spier. You should be
>slower to
>>>> second-guess him.
>>>> On Feb 6, 2015 8:07 PM, "Alec Spier" <alec.spier@???>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://voluntary.net/bitmarkets/
>>>>> ^^ like this as theres support for Tor and Bitmessage. If we could
>get
>>>>> the openbazaar arbitration scheme integrated or rep-based arbiters
>as
>>>>> optional it would be superior to both current products.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cody: "Ross may have acted unethically in his actions. But we
>should
>>>>> consider that he was supremely ethical as well."
>>>>> Actions speak louder than words... maybe I misunderstood this
>statement
>>>>> but it sounds a bit chickenshit honestly.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, February 06, 2015 at 6:33 PM
>>>>> *From:* "Cody R Wilson" <codywilson@???>
>>>>> *To:* "System undo crew" <unsystem@???>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [unSYSTEM] Silk Road Trial is starting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Adam, yes I'll do it. I don't want you to think I'm avoiding you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Circling back to your point about tyranny's obsolescence.
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to talk about soft tyranny and State power's abstract and
>>>>> constitutive dimension. Its construction of the individual subject
>as a
>>>>> political unit. There are walls to tear down other than the
>physical.
>>>>> That's why I took the time to do this Foundation song and dance.
>The moral
>>>>> majority in Bitcoin is hideous and due a real reckoning.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding disruption without alternative, I'm sure it's clear I
>cast
>>>>> my lot with the secret complicity all people have with the
>disaster. Take
>>>>> the world financial and the sovereign debt games for examples. We
>all know
>>>>> no real break from this circus comes without a reset and some hard
>>>>> landings. Alternatives or no.
>>>>>
>>>>> We're all allergic to this overwhelming power. We're all praying
>to see
>>>>> something, anything else.
>>>>> On Feb 6, 2015 6:22 PM, "Adam B. Levine"
><adam@???>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *"Firstly, I've not discounted the value of openbazaar. With
>any
>>>>>> luck it will be vibrant and successful and copied. The markets
>will be
>>>>>> black and we may rejoice. Supposing it all goes down that way, do
>you
>>>>>> really stop being a liberal?"*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have no problem with black markets, my point is that by just
>>>>>> allowing projects like this to emerge they naturally obsolete the
>monopoly
>>>>>> of the state and make it impossible to have most forms of
>tyranical
>>>>>> government because the government isn't a party to the
>transactions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If on the other hand we emphasize the disruptive nature and
>antagonize
>>>>>> the status quo without actually building solutions on the tech
>that is now
>>>>>> available we'll find it illegal and then while it will still be
>continued
>>>>>> by people willing to break the law the progress will slow down
>>>>>> exponentially and the utility will drop to a fraction of what it
>would be
>>>>>> if it was not just disruptive but also obviously too useful to
>fight. You
>>>>>> might say this is good because it forces the hand of the state, I
>think
>>>>>> that's a really short sighted point of view given things are
>naturally
>>>>>> being obsoleted as we continue to build.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seems like we've all made our points,* Cody did you want to come
>on
>>>>>> Let's Talk Bitcoin! to chat on this and related topics?* I think
>>>>>> it's a very relevant discussion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adam B. Levine
>>>>>> Editor-in-Chief
>>>>>> Let's Talk Bitcoin! <http://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Cody R Wilson
><codywilson@???>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Firstly, I've not discounted the value of openbazaar. With any
>luck
>>>>>>> it will be vibrant and successful and copied. The markets will
>be black and
>>>>>>> we may rejoice. Supposing it all goes down that way, do you
>really stop
>>>>>>> being a liberal?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This thread was about Ross' Trial and now judgment, and ethical
>>>>>>> questions like yours which were not entirely rhetorical. The
>conversation
>>>>>>> became about morality and murder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I say a militant ethics is required, and bad subjects necessary,
>to
>>>>>>> depose the state-form. A great place to start examining your
>head is with
>>>>>>> your acceptance of universal morality, which I offer is as much
>a "product"
>>>>>>> as Swiss cheese.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ross may have acted unethically in his actions. But we should
>>>>>>> consider that he was supremely ethical as well.
>>>>>>> On Feb 6, 2015 5:52 PM, "Adam B. Levine"
><adam@???>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The gun thing? As mentioned, you seem to take on the mission
>of
>>>>>>>> proving that the state can't actually enforce their monopolies
>of control
>>>>>>>> as being the entire job. That is great but again only
>demonstrates that the
>>>>>>>> illusion is an illusion, it does not provide any alternatives
>or
>>>>>>>> solutions. Things like OpenBazaar are actual solutions so that
>when the
>>>>>>>> current paradigm falls apart there are better systems not just
>>>>>>>> hypothetically theoretical but actually working in real life
>before we
>>>>>>>> needed them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What good is it destroying the existing paradigm if you've got
>>>>>>>> nothing better to replace it with? Decentralized tools that
>enable p2p
>>>>>>>> interactions and commerce without a trusted third party seem to
>solve that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So aren't projects like what Brian and I are working neccesary
>>>>>>>> alternatives for when people come around to your way of seeing
>things? I
>>>>>>>> just don't get the whole point out the problem but shit on
>attempts at
>>>>>>>> building something different and better thing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do you really not see the difference between openbazaar and
>silk
>>>>>>>> road? They are structured very differently.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Adam B. Levine
>>>>>>>> Editor-in-Chief
>>>>>>>> Let's Talk Bitcoin! <http://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Brian Hoffman
><brian@???>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How many have you guys sold? I feel like I haven't heard
>about it
>>>>>>>>> since it came out. Seems irrelevant.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 6, 2015, at 6:42 PM, Cody R Wilson
><codywilson@???>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Can you hear me sighing?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Take DD's little Ghost Gunner. At once a reversion, a baiting
>of
>>>>>>>>> the state regulatory imagination into overdrive, and the
>literalization of
>>>>>>>>> its own nightmare. We understand the spirit of terror.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, no. I'm casting all these pearls because so many of YOU
>have
>>>>>>>>> become them, and you don't have to mettle to stand in judgment
>of Ulbricht.
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 6, 2015 5:33 PM, "Washington Sanchez" <
>>>>>>>>> washington.sanchez@???> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Meet terror with terror..."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What a skilful use of the leviathan's ideological hegemony to
>>>>>>>>>> justify a corrupt conscience. You are not merely emulating
>their tactics,
>>>>>>>>>> you have become them. How disappointing.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>
>https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>
>https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>
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>
>
>--
>Sincerely,
>
>Cody R. Wilson
>codywilson@???
>
>The University of Texas School of Law
>Class of 2014
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
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