Fundamental there are 3 choices human being have in the face of conflict.

A) seek to find a win-win scenario. This means seek to establish Universal*
(your word Cody, not mine) rules of interaction. This is what Bitcoin IS. A
set of rules by which to exchange value. This is also what the internet is,
a set of rules by which to transfer & exchange information.

B) Seek to impose your will on the other regardless of their preferences,
aka win-lose. This is how the state operates and what they are doing to
everyone in prison and everyone harmed by the war on drugs, and the pharma
monopolies. This path is one of power struggles and violence. Did Ross act
unethically for threatening violence, when the alternative was being caged
by the state? Given that the state is the one raising the stakes of this
poker game, and without them this would be a non issue, than it is obvious
to me they must enter the moral calculation.

C) avoid interaction. This one has its limits ofcourse and is an extension
of B. It could be argued that Ross is responsible for attempted murder
simply because he made the choices that landed him in that situation, for
even getting involved with building Silk Road and setting him self up to be
in that situation.

You see, blackmail does not simply go away once you pay them off. The
attacker can keep coming back, and to not comply in Ross's situation could
have been life in prison. What would you have done Adam? what alternatives?

Yes he ended up there regardless, though so far he has not been charged
with attempted murder.

Ultimately, if Ross is guilty of anything, I think it is of Naivety. Had he
encrypted his journal and named it "Cat pictures"... or not used his gmail
with his full name on it... maybe than this would be a different story.

Perhaps he should have waited for decentralized markets to emerge.

Given all of this, was he not aware of the state's brutality?

And I must ask, did his friends and family not warn him of the ruthless
beast that writes the laws? This counts regardless of whether they knew or
not what he was up to.



On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Adam B. Levine <adam@???>
wrote:

> Hey Alec, I'm pretty sure you just got cursed by Cody Wilson!
>
> Adam B. Levine
> Editor-in-Chief
> Let's Talk Bitcoin! <http://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/>
>
> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@???>
> wrote:
>
>> May you be faced with a terrible choice, Spier. You should be slower to
>> second-guess him.
>> On Feb 6, 2015 8:07 PM, "Alec Spier" <alec.spier@???> wrote:
>>
>>> http://voluntary.net/bitmarkets/
>>> ^^ like this as theres support for Tor and Bitmessage. If we could get
>>> the openbazaar arbitration scheme integrated or rep-based arbiters as
>>> optional it would be superior to both current products.
>>>
>>> Cody: "Ross may have acted unethically in his actions. But we should
>>> consider that he was supremely ethical as well."
>>> Actions speak louder than words... maybe I misunderstood this statement
>>> but it sounds a bit chickenshit honestly.
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, February 06, 2015 at 6:33 PM
>>> *From:* "Cody R Wilson" <codywilson@???>
>>> *To:* "System undo crew" <unsystem@???>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [unSYSTEM] Silk Road Trial is starting.
>>>
>>> Adam, yes I'll do it. I don't want you to think I'm avoiding you.
>>>
>>> Circling back to your point about tyranny's obsolescence.
>>>
>>> I want to talk about soft tyranny and State power's abstract and
>>> constitutive dimension. Its construction of the individual subject as a
>>> political unit. There are walls to tear down other than the physical.
>>> That's why I took the time to do this Foundation song and dance. The moral
>>> majority in Bitcoin is hideous and due a real reckoning.
>>>
>>> Regarding disruption without alternative, I'm sure it's clear I cast my
>>> lot with the secret complicity all people have with the disaster. Take the
>>> world financial and the sovereign debt games for examples. We all know no
>>> real break from this circus comes without a reset and some hard landings.
>>> Alternatives or no.
>>>
>>> We're all allergic to this overwhelming power. We're all praying to see
>>> something, anything else.
>>> On Feb 6, 2015 6:22 PM, "Adam B. Levine" <adam@???>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> *"Firstly, I've not discounted the value of openbazaar. With any
>>>> luck it will be vibrant and successful and copied. The markets will be
>>>> black and we may rejoice. Supposing it all goes down that way, do you
>>>> really stop being a liberal?"*
>>>>
>>>> I have no problem with black markets, my point is that by just allowing
>>>> projects like this to emerge they naturally obsolete the monopoly of the
>>>> state and make it impossible to have most forms of tyranical government
>>>> because the government isn't a party to the transactions.
>>>>
>>>> If on the other hand we emphasize the disruptive nature and antagonize
>>>> the status quo without actually building solutions on the tech that is now
>>>> available we'll find it illegal and then while it will still be continued
>>>> by people willing to break the law the progress will slow down
>>>> exponentially and the utility will drop to a fraction of what it would be
>>>> if it was not just disruptive but also obviously too useful to fight. You
>>>> might say this is good because it forces the hand of the state, I think
>>>> that's a really short sighted point of view given things are naturally
>>>> being obsoleted as we continue to build.
>>>>
>>>> Seems like we've all made our points,* Cody did you want to come on
>>>> Let's Talk Bitcoin! to chat on this and related topics?* I think it's
>>>> a very relevant discussion.
>>>>
>>>> Adam B. Levine
>>>> Editor-in-Chief
>>>> Let's Talk Bitcoin! <http://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@???>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Firstly, I've not discounted the value of openbazaar. With any luck it
>>>>> will be vibrant and successful and copied. The markets will be black and we
>>>>> may rejoice. Supposing it all goes down that way, do you really stop being
>>>>> a liberal?
>>>>>
>>>>> This thread was about Ross' Trial and now judgment, and ethical
>>>>> questions like yours which were not entirely rhetorical. The conversation
>>>>> became about morality and murder.
>>>>>
>>>>> I say a militant ethics is required, and bad subjects necessary, to
>>>>> depose the state-form. A great place to start examining your head is with
>>>>> your acceptance of universal morality, which I offer is as much a "product"
>>>>> as Swiss cheese.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ross may have acted unethically in his actions. But we should consider
>>>>> that he was supremely ethical as well.
>>>>> On Feb 6, 2015 5:52 PM, "Adam B. Levine" <adam@???>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The gun thing? As mentioned, you seem to take on the mission of
>>>>>> proving that the state can't actually enforce their monopolies of control
>>>>>> as being the entire job. That is great but again only demonstrates that the
>>>>>> illusion is an illusion, it does not provide any alternatives or
>>>>>> solutions. Things like OpenBazaar are actual solutions so that when the
>>>>>> current paradigm falls apart there are better systems not just
>>>>>> hypothetically theoretical but actually working in real life before we
>>>>>> needed them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What good is it destroying the existing paradigm if you've got
>>>>>> nothing better to replace it with? Decentralized tools that enable p2p
>>>>>> interactions and commerce without a trusted third party seem to solve that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So aren't projects like what Brian and I are working neccesary
>>>>>> alternatives for when people come around to your way of seeing things? I
>>>>>> just don't get the whole point out the problem but shit on attempts at
>>>>>> building something different and better thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you really not see the difference between openbazaar and silk
>>>>>> road? They are structured very differently.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adam B. Levine
>>>>>> Editor-in-Chief
>>>>>> Let's Talk Bitcoin! <http://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Brian Hoffman <brian@???>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How many have you guys sold? I feel like I haven't heard about it
>>>>>>> since it came out. Seems irrelevant.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 6, 2015, at 6:42 PM, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@???>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can you hear me sighing?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Take DD's little Ghost Gunner. At once a reversion, a baiting of the
>>>>>>> state regulatory imagination into overdrive, and the literalization of its
>>>>>>> own nightmare. We understand the spirit of terror.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, no. I'm casting all these pearls because so many of YOU have
>>>>>>> become them, and you don't have to mettle to stand in judgment of Ulbricht.
>>>>>>> On Feb 6, 2015 5:33 PM, "Washington Sanchez" <
>>>>>>> washington.sanchez@???> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Meet terror with terror..."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What a skilful use of the leviathan's ideological hegemony to
>>>>>>>> justify a corrupt conscience. You are not merely emulating their tactics,
>>>>>>>> you have become them. How disappointing.
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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