*"Firstly, I've not discounted the value of openbazaar. With any luck it
will be vibrant and successful and copied. The markets will be black and we
may rejoice. Supposing it all goes down that way, do you really stop being
a liberal?"*
I have no problem with black markets, my point is that by just allowing
projects like this to emerge they naturally obsolete the monopoly of the
state and make it impossible to have most forms of tyranical government
because the government isn't a party to the transactions.

If on the other hand we emphasize the disruptive nature and antagonize the
status quo without actually building solutions on the tech that is now
available we'll find it illegal and then while it will still be continued
by people willing to break the law the progress will slow down
exponentially and the utility will drop to a fraction of what it would be
if it was not just disruptive but also obviously too useful to fight. You
might say this is good because it forces the hand of the state, I think
that's a really short sighted point of view given things are naturally
being obsoleted as we continue to build.

Seems like we've all made our points,* Cody did you want to come on Let's
Talk Bitcoin! to chat on this and related topics?* I think it's a very
relevant discussion.

Adam B. Levine
Editor-in-Chief
Let's Talk Bitcoin! <http://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/>

On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 4:08 PM, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@???> wrote:

> Firstly, I've not discounted the value of openbazaar. With any luck it
> will be vibrant and successful and copied. The markets will be black and we
> may rejoice. Supposing it all goes down that way, do you really stop being
> a liberal?
>
> This thread was about Ross' Trial and now judgment, and ethical questions
> like yours which were not entirely rhetorical. The conversation became
> about morality and murder.
>
> I say a militant ethics is required, and bad subjects necessary, to depose
> the state-form. A great place to start examining your head is with your
> acceptance of universal morality, which I offer is as much a "product" as
> Swiss cheese.
>
> Ross may have acted unethically in his actions. But we should consider
> that he was supremely ethical as well.
> On Feb 6, 2015 5:52 PM, "Adam B. Levine" <adam@???> wrote:
>
>> The gun thing? As mentioned, you seem to take on the mission of proving
>> that the state can't actually enforce their monopolies of control as being
>> the entire job. That is great but again only demonstrates that the illusion
>> is an illusion, it does not provide any alternatives or solutions. Things
>> like OpenBazaar are actual solutions so that when the current paradigm
>> falls apart there are better systems not just hypothetically theoretical
>> but actually working in real life before we needed them.
>>
>> What good is it destroying the existing paradigm if you've got nothing
>> better to replace it with? Decentralized tools that enable p2p
>> interactions and commerce without a trusted third party seem to solve that.
>>
>> So aren't projects like what Brian and I are working neccesary
>> alternatives for when people come around to your way of seeing things? I
>> just don't get the whole point out the problem but shit on attempts at
>> building something different and better thing.
>>
>> Do you really not see the difference between openbazaar and silk road?
>> They are structured very differently.
>>
>> Adam B. Levine
>> Editor-in-Chief
>> Let's Talk Bitcoin! <http://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Brian Hoffman <brian@???>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> How many have you guys sold? I feel like I haven't heard about it since
>>> it came out. Seems irrelevant.
>>>
>>> On Feb 6, 2015, at 6:42 PM, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@???> wrote:
>>>
>>> Can you hear me sighing?
>>>
>>> Take DD's little Ghost Gunner. At once a reversion, a baiting of the
>>> state regulatory imagination into overdrive, and the literalization of its
>>> own nightmare. We understand the spirit of terror.
>>>
>>> So, no. I'm casting all these pearls because so many of YOU have become
>>> them, and you don't have to mettle to stand in judgment of Ulbricht.
>>> On Feb 6, 2015 5:33 PM, "Washington Sanchez" <
>>> washington.sanchez@???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Meet terror with terror..."
>>>>
>>>> What a skilful use of the leviathan's ideological hegemony to justify a
>>>> corrupt conscience. You are not merely emulating their tactics, you have
>>>> become them. How disappointing.
>>>>
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