No, sorry for the confusion. I was pointing out that law enforcement sometimes needs things like violence to justify their actions, so a “radical group” committing violence can be counterproductive to said group as it sways opinions both public and private. In these cases apparently LE needed it so bad they were willing to break a lot of their own rules. Provocation.

Highly doubt Cody is law enforcement. Seems way too smart for that.


> On Feb 6, 2015, at 3:11 PM, Adam B. Levine <adam@???> wrote:
>
> Are you suggesting Cody is law enforcement?
>
> Adam B. Levine
> Editor-in-Chief
> Let's Talk Bitcoin! <http://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/>
>
> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 3:12 PM, snakecharmr <snakecharmr1024@??? <mailto:snakecharmr1024@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Worth mentioning
>
> From this article:
>
> http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/6-ways-cops-used-sex-infiltrate-disrupt-protest-groups/8146/ <http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/6-ways-cops-used-sex-infiltrate-disrupt-protest-groups/8146/>
>
> “He would tease me for not being committed enough…he got me to become more involved in ‘direct action.’”
>
> It’s a known tactic of law enforcement to infiltrate groups and guilt-trip them into doing violent things.
>
>> On Feb 6, 2015, at 3:05 PM, Adam B. Levine <adam@??? <mailto:adam@letstalkbitcoin.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Cody, I actually said some stuff and you just hand-waved it all away with an insult. Are you so obviously right that you can just claim victory and walk away without having actually said anything besides empty anti-establishment platitudes? Come on, that's easy.
>>
>> As mentioned, I'm actually putting my money where my mouth is and building what I think part of the solution. What are you doing besides spouting flowery rhetoric and spending your time trying to get elected to organizations you want to destroy?
>>
>> Adam B. Levine
>> Editor-in-Chief
>> Let's Talk Bitcoin! <http://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@??? <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>> wrote:
>> A philosophy of tokens is a token philosophy, gang.
>>
>> Back to the Lord's work.
>>
>> On Feb 6, 2015 4:55 PM, "Cody R Wilson" <codywilson@??? <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>> wrote:
>> How thoroughly armchair.
>>
>> The openbazaar boys will still hang. Just with more surprised looks on their faces.
>>
>> On Feb 6, 2015 4:54 PM, "Adam B. Levine" <adam@??? <mailto:adam@letstalkbitcoin.com>> wrote:
>> The terror can only be answered with terror? Are you nuts?
>>
>> The problem with the world is disruptive innovation can only happen in industries which are allowed to be disrupted. That is, until cryptographic tokens busted the hinges off and made it so even if you had the MOST disruptive monopoly of all, MONEY, you couldn't actually enforce it any more.
>>
>> Tokens allow that same unstoppable trait to be applied to anything by offloading the transactional and fundamental stuff to a system that can be programmed at the start to not change nothing for anybody.
>>
>> So the domino has already been knocked, we already have the ability to have unstoppable competition in whatever it is needed in but only if we use the infrastructures and models to actually create that. If we don't create that, it's nothing but potential we've wasted.
>>
>> If we use it to create better alternatives than people will pick the option that is in their best interest, and cryptotoken solutions for a variety of reasons are very much in the best interest of the average person because they represent ownership and because they don't have expensive identity infrastructures they represent much more efficient systems relative to the existing, non-competitive alternatives.
>>
>> So.... Have fun with your terror to meet their terror. If you fail you can go to work for them since you'll already have the right skill set.
>>
>> Adam B. Levine
>> Editor-in-Chief
>> Let's Talk Bitcoin! <http://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@??? <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>> wrote:
>> Adam, I'll put it like this. Many otherwise liberty-minded people have an uncritical acceptance of the Statist paradigm, which goes beyond a principal of objective political power. Our revolutionary imagination is captured in a moral dialectic as well, one that now principally operates as a shield for the technocratic machinery.
>>
>> Let me continue. This isn't the nineteenth century. We don't get to peaceably ignore the cold monster and build out free spheres of action. The five-eyed beast not only lays claim to the political subject's reality, it claims absolute ideological hegemony as well.
>>
>> This terror can only be answered with terror. Not a fat good conscience happily spitting what's "good" and "bad."
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Adam B. Levine <adam@??? <mailto:adam@letstalkbitcoin.com>> wrote:
>> Joerg, what is a martyr if not someone who suffers publicly in the present as a casualty of a battle that should and will be won at some point in the future, which had it been won now would have negated their present suffering?
>>
>> The case sets new standards, yes. What does that have to do with being a fan of ross? The standards being set are platform based and if anything Ross has done major damage by being so obviously guilty that the broader argument about platform responsibility and what it means never even needed to come up. Our platform among other things enables trading of tokens between users on the platform in much the same way silk road does, now I have a rather irritating situation.
>>
>> Before this case there was no precedent about whether or not I, as the platform operator, was not necessarily responsible for what my users do with that and if something did come up we'd go to court and explain how the tokens being traded represent pre-paid subscriptions and advertisements and fit within the existing, tax compliant US landscape.
>>
>> It would be quite difficult to make any real case against the platform because the platform is enabling things that are a) impossible in the conventional paradigm without b) violating the rules of the conventional paradigm.
>>
>> Now after silk road the precedent is very clear, the platform owner is responsible for ANYTHING that happens on the platform because... Silk Road! If I or any other platform operators go to court to fight this it will be fighting against that existing precedent.
>>
>>
>> Julia, I don't think we're going to agree on this because you're supporting the idea and I'm questioning the man.
>>
>>
>> Juan, if you are blackmailing me and I kill you, that's murder not self defense. Nobody was coming at Ross with an ax, they were threatening to expose his illegal business and he wanted to avoid the consequences so much he was willing to pay someone to kill him, do you not see a difference between that scenario and "Axeman breaks into your trailer in the night?"
>>
>> It seems like we're back to one bad act somehow making subsequent bad acts alright in some sense. You're saying it would have been worse potentially if he had let whatever happen happen, and yet the outcome for him is exactly the same except he destroyed his credibility in the process.
>>
>> Adam B. Levine
>> Editor-in-Chief
>> Let's Talk Bitcoin! <http://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 2:16 PM, Joerg Platzer <joerg@??? <mailto:joerg@room77.de>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> "As I've said, Ross is a martyr for the drug war if you want to look at him like that, ..."
>>
>> Nope, he is just the first guy who built a free online market, who put it on the table in front of our eyes. As such he will be mentioned in history books long before he gets out of prison, if he ever does. However, by the time he maybe does, free online markets will be as normal as apple pie or we will live in the deepest fascism ever.
>>
>>
>> " .... If it was Coinbase getting knocked down for such a thing I suspect there would be cheers and yet Ross gets a pass because he's a rogue?"
>>
>> This case sets new standards, defines things on new territory, create new interpretations which will be fallen back to in the future.
>>
>> After all, he doesn't go to jail for tax evasion or not having a financial services license or for having ripped customers off.
>>
>> Regards!
>>
>> ++jp
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Adam B. Levine
>> Editor-in-Chief
>> Let's Talk Bitcoin! <http://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 1:51 PM, Charlie 'Charles' Shrem <cshrem@??? <mailto:cshrem@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> I think my point is, fraud, credit card theft, child porn are all very mad crimes with victims that are hurt.
>>
>> They all lead to violence, ect.
>>
>> When it comes to drugs, I believe the gov't should not have a right to tell me what I cannot put into my body. However I believe strong DUI and DWI laws are important. Once I am putting someone else's like in danger, we are going to have problems.
>>
>> Silk Road kept fraud, credit card theft, child porn, ect. off of its listings, and banned anyone who broke those rules.
>>
>> Now ladies and gentleman....I'm afraid the dark net markets have official gone black.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>> CharlieShrem.com <http://charlieshrem.com/> | Please encrypt messages with my PGP key <http://charlieshrem.com/contact/>
>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 4:46 PM, Julia Tourianski <juliatourianski@??? <mailto:juliatourianski@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Good interjection Charlie.
>>
>> We probably got lucky in the fact that the first online black marketplace was also the most moral. Pity the State shut it down eh?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> For the secrets and lies, my PGP key: https://libbitcoin.dyne.org/julia_tourianski.pgp.asc <https://libbitcoin.dyne.org/julia_tourianski.pgp.asc>
>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Charlie 'Charles' Shrem <cshrem@??? <mailto:cshrem@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> I don't mean to but into this debate, but I wanted to point out something interesting.
>>
>> Taken from Andy's article in Wired "The Dark Web Gets Darker With Rise of the ‘Evolution’ Drug Market"
>>
>> And Evolution’s popularity has been driven not only by a more secure and professional operation than its competitors, but also by a more amoral approach to the cryptomarket than the strict libertarian ethos the Silk Road preached. Case in point: About 10 percent of Evolution’s products are stolen credit card numbers and credentials for hacked online accounts.
>>
>> That development represents an unsavory departure from the Silk Road’s rule that only “victimless” contraband could be sold through its anonymous black market—a sign that the traditional cybercriminal underground sees an opportunity to merge its identity theft business with the widening online trade in narcotics.
>>
>> “It’s moved well beyond victimless crime,” says a researcher for the non-profit Digital Citizens Alliance who closely tracks dark web markets and asked not to be identified for legal and security reasons. “The libertarian ideals behind Silk Road were about giving everyone free choice. Now it’s gone past drugs to fraud. It’s just about making money.”
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>> CharlieShrem.com <http://charlieshrem.com/> | Please encrypt messages with my PGP key <http://charlieshrem.com/contact/>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 4:38 PM, Julia Tourianski <juliatourianski@??? <mailto:juliatourianski@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Adam, you sing a song from the high horse of "he should have known better," or "what did you think was going to happen." Most people have been. It's an egotistical position to be frank. Ross created something new. Many people who have strong ideological convictions are not only apathetic to risk, but naive because purpose, not consequence drives them.
>>
>> He created a disruptive platform. It was the first. It was brave because it was irrational. And it did work. It gave birth to many more in its death.
>>
>> Ultimately, the result of that platform was not in his control...which to me is it's inherent beauty. Hero worship or not, the guy is history...unfortunately in every sense of the word.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> For the secrets and lies, my PGP key: https://libbitcoin.dyne.org/julia_tourianski.pgp.asc <https://libbitcoin.dyne.org/julia_tourianski.pgp.asc>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Adam B. Levine <adam@??? <mailto:adam@letstalkbitcoin.com>> wrote:
>> Cody, you're all about proving the illusion of ability that the state presents is nonsense and the promises they make are unrepairable.
>>
>> My gig is creating things, helping people think about new possibilities that ignore the rather larger and intractable problems that face us. Your solution is.... What, keep talking? What good is it if you don't build better platforms <https://github.com/tokenly/Tokenly-Tools-and-Services> that ignore the current paradigm because it is irrelevant to their functioning? It sounds like you want to go to war and I just don't get the urge to play david to goliath when our whole advantage is decentralization and the ability to move much faster than the centralized opposition.
>>
>> We all make our choices of how to go about causing change, I feel pretty good about mine - Did you have any complaints about my contribution besides not seeing the reason to support Ross given they're not arguing he's innocent?
>>
>>
>>
>> Adam B. Levine
>> Editor-in-Chief
>> Let's Talk Bitcoin! <http://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 1:05 PM, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@??? <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>> wrote:
>> I'm hopeful about a further controversy on appeal about how the Feds collected his server info, and if the FBI's account is impeachable. This is interesting and potentially fruitful, Constitutionally. The surveillance apparatus abridging the 4A is part of what animates the support.
>>
>> But to your point, all these "workarounds" ultimately provide you with your own convenient evasion. Our fight requires bad subjects, and the revaluation of values. If you haven't had to walk into the ethical twilight yet, you aren't trying, Adam.
>>
>> Ross had the stones to travel as far out as any of us, and to go beyond good and evil. I for one am not celebrating him as a martyr. I'm celebrating him for *doing* and acting against the moral terror and world hegemon.
>>
>> On Feb 6, 2015 2:44 PM, "Adam B. Levine" <adam@??? <mailto:adam@letstalkbitcoin.com>> wrote:
>> I don't really consider one murder justifying another murder. Just because people who do wrong go unpunished doesn't mean we should celebrate people who do wrong but are caught and punished. From the evidence I've seen, Ross was someone who did wrong, knew what he was doing and justified it to himself because he morally disagrees with the drug war, although that doesnt have much to do with his willingness to kill. He might have felt justified, he might have been ideologically aligned with yours or my beliefs but he was caught, is guilty and knew the risk going into it. He chose to fight a battle he could not win in a court that wouldn't have let him win even if he didn't do it, which the evidence suggests he did.
>>
>> If anything Ross is an example of why disruptive centralized solutions to political problems won't work. But by all means, lets spend more time with ross hero worship and waxing poetic about how crappy, hypocritical and ineffectual the government is and not acknowledging that the guy makes a pretty lousy hero or martyr. We know the current system sucks. It's really really obvious. That's why we're building infrastructure to work around the problem and connect people directly to conduct commerce that wouldn't otherwise happen. That's the point.
>>
>> People who "Believe" in ulbricht, what exactly do you believe in? Are you totally focused on the "It's a drug market but since its not on the corner it's not violent" feature? I'm really trying to understand the appeal of this guy after the lack of defense.
>>
>> Adam B. Levine
>> Editor-in-Chief
>> Let's Talk Bitcoin! <http://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Kevin Gallagher <kevin@??? <mailto:kevin@freedom.press>> wrote:
>> And who ordered the murder of Abdulrahman al-Awlaki?
>>
>>
>> On 02/06/2015 12:08 PM, Devon Read wrote:
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> If you're arguing morality, how about considering the whole thing from a different perspective. First, let's assume we can forgive the US government for its enormously hypocritical behavior in regard to the war on drugs (i.e., the significant amount of evidence that the CIA imports and financially supports drug producers, the positive impact on opium production that our invasion of Afghanistan had (http://static.wixstatic.com/media/99909e_2a76c5021bf544879e238e6c6afe3236.png_srz_828_480_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_png_srz <http://static.wixstatic.com/media/99909e_2a76c5021bf544879e238e6c6afe3236.png_srz_828_480_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_png_srz>), etc), or the fact that it has really only lead to increased police budgets and the highest rate of imprisonment in the world (where many low cost "made in america" products are made by the prisoners, btw, at substantially below minimum wage rates). The reality is that the trade of "drugs" has been a part of our history as far back as one can look. Just like it did to the alcohol trade, the abolition of the drug trade is what made it violent. What the Silk Road accomplished was to make it a safe and non-violent process again - whether Ross is DPR or not, and whether or not DPR ever allegedly ordered the killing of a handful of people to protect a system that was able to conduct such a large amount of trade without violence before that point (and with impression of protection from the threat of state-imposed violence), would you not agree that the Silk Road worked as a much more civilized mechanism than the current status quo? Wasn't it working in a far more "moral" way than alternatives?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Brian Hoffman <brian@??? <mailto:brian@openbazaar.org>> wrote:
>>> Perhaps.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 6, 2015, at 2:29 PM, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@??? <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My argument is you've internalized your masters and their morality.
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 6, 2015 1:25 PM, "Brian Hoffman" <brian@??? <mailto:brian@openbazaar.org>> wrote:
>>>> So your argument is drug kingpins gonna kingpin so it's all fair in love and war? I've tried hard to follow your line of argument, but I will claim ignorance here and move on.
>>>>
>>>> On another note, I thought that he wrote the hells angel comment in his personal journal. They argued that wasn't him?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 6, 2015, at 2:15 PM, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@??? <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey buddy, you're in the wrong line of work if you can't stomach a militant ethics or name your adversary.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this case, bourgouis legality and its attendant universals are keeping you in check. You, with openbazaar no less.
>>>>>
>>>>> I expect you'll be singing on the stand, yes?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 6, 2015 1:09 PM, "Brian Hoffman" <brian@??? <mailto:brian@openbazaar.org>> wrote:
>>>>> So conspiracy to attempt murder is ethical now? I think I've heard everything. I'll buy that this trial wasn't about him trying to murder anyone, but that's a fucking weak argument. I like how you casually place murder in that "protection" bucket.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 6, 2015, at 1:40 PM, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@??? <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Not only that, it is ethical to protect your suppliers and customers from ruin when another party threatens them with state violence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ross' takedown was also necessary because of his ethics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 6, 2015 12:35 PM, "Adam B. Levine" <adam@??? <mailto:adam@letstalkbitcoin.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> I think the point was not that he committed murder or was accused of committing murder, it was that the defense did not deny that his intention was for someone to be murdered and he took steps that he thought would lead to that outcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you think it is an acceptable behavior to pay someone to murder someone else because you think they threaten your illegal business?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adam B. Levine
>>>>>> Editor-in-Chief
>>>>>> Let's Talk Bitcoin! <http://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 7:45 AM, Julia Tourianski <juliatourianski@??? <mailto:juliatourianski@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> Drug trafficking, conspiracy to drug trafficking, money laundering conspiracy to hack, selling fraudulent identification... and variations of what I already mentioned. The murder thing was all bullshit and he was never indicted for it. the fact that people are so hung up on it even in this mailing list shows how effective of a slander strategy it was
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 6, 2015 9:36 AM, "Alicia Cruz" <accruz44@??? <mailto:accruz44@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> Ross didn't actually get charged with murder I thought? And was convicted on drug trafficking, hacking, and money laundering. Julia, do you have a full list of what the conviction was?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 11:17 PM, Julia Tourianski <juliatourianski@??? <mailto:juliatourianski@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> He was confident because "I have an answer for everything"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> unfortunately the defense was not allowed to present half of their evidence , and half of their witnesses were not allowed to speak either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> His fait was sealed before it even started.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 5, 2015 10:17 PM, "Juan S. Galt" <eljuangalt@??? <mailto:eljuangalt@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> I've yet to look a the evidence presented at the trial, havn't had time. However, the CIA has admitted to false flag operations and Its hard to argue that it is above them to do such a thing in this case, particularly given how the Silk Road arguable threatens the status quo in regards to the war on drugs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, without looking at the evidence, my loyalty is with Ross. However, if those threats were indeed made, and Ross made them, than yes, that alone would deserve moral judgment and appropriate social action.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 7:57 PM, Mathias Groennebaek <mathias@??? <mailto:mathias@cloudtech.dk>> wrote:
>>>>>> Have I missed something, or did the defence not really provide any particular proof of Ross not having ordered the hit on several people? And if so, why is it so hard to understand why he has been convicted, when there is an ample amount of proof that he did indeed do so?
>>>>>> From a moral perspective, anyone involved in a murder should in my honest opinion be convicted of their crimes. The silk road trial and a discussion in general about drugs and their legality is a separate matter entirely to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Juan S. Galt <eljuangalt@??? <mailto:eljuangalt@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> Anyone with enough mind to think about it for a few minutes knows this trial has been rigged from the start.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "It is important to note that since there is no victim to Ross’s alleged illegal activity this court case is not founded on contract law. And given the 500+ variations of cannabis that was traded on the Silk Road, it’s hard to say it was even anti-democratic with the plant being one of the most popular recreational and medicinal drugs, which after decades of controversy remains illegal."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://cointelegraph.com/news/113393/dread-pirate-roberts-imprisonment-vs-innovation-op-ed <http://cointelegraph.com/news/113393/dread-pirate-roberts-imprisonment-vs-innovation-op-ed>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 7:24 PM, Brian Hoffman <brian@??? <mailto:brian@openbazaar.org>> wrote:
>>>>>> Touche
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2015, at 8:23 PM, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@??? <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What's reddit?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2015 7:22 PM, "Brian Hoffman" <brian@??? <mailto:brian@openbazaar.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Meh it's just fun times. Don't tell me all the Reddit babble has you rattled. I'm just messing with you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2015, at 8:18 PM, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@??? <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey Brian, if I don't know better I'd say you were being snide.
>>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2015 7:10 PM, "Brian Hoffman" <brian@??? <mailto:brian@openbazaar.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> And he endorses you for Bitcoin Foundation board as a result of your support.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2015, at 8:04 PM, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@??? <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As I've said before, I support him because of what he is accused. Not despite it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2015 7:02 PM, "Adam B. Levine" <adam@??? <mailto:adam@letstalkbitcoin.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Does whether or not Ross did what he is being accused of and tried for, matter?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Adam B. Levine
>>>>>>>>> Editor-in-Chief
>>>>>>>>> Let's Talk Bitcoin! <http://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 3:40 PM, Julia Tourianski <juliatourianski@??? <mailto:juliatourianski@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I watched his father breakdown on the phone with Ross's sister and my world has been frozen since that moment. I cannot imagine their pain even after witnessing it. His mother is staying very strong, it's not over for her.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One of the jury members was smiling when they announced it. I'm so disappointed in the basic nature of the common, the "Justice" machine did its job today. ..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2015 5:42 PM, "Cody R Wilson" <codywilson@??? <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Take heart. We knew this part was likely. We find the real battle in challenging the US' acquisition of the server info.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Can't argue the facts, but we can put them to proof on the law.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2015 4:40 PM, "Alicia Cruz" <accruz44@??? <mailto:accruz44@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> :(
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Matt <millsdmb@??? <mailto:millsdmb@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Guilty on all charges :(:(
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 23, 2015 12:49 PM, "Andrew Miller" <amiller@??? <mailto:amiller@cs.umd.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> > um by the way, did anyone notice what is happening in Puerto Rico with
>>>>>>>>> > the Bitcoin Foundation and that ZeroCash project, which did present at
>>>>>>>>> > the prior FinCrypto, is noticeably ABSENT from this upcoming one? See:
>>>>>>>>> > http://fc15.ifca.ai <http://fc15.ifca.ai/> (yeah, interesting read)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think your point is that because there's no research paper about
>>>>>>>>> Zerocash or an extension being presented at FC or the bitcoin
>>>>>>>>> workshop, that it might be being squelched/unwelcome somehow by the
>>>>>>>>> foundation influence there? That's not the case... members of the
>>>>>>>>> zerocash team will be there and will probably present a development
>>>>>>>>> update of some kind at the rump session.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think you're also suggesting that because the Bitcoin Foundation is
>>>>>>>>> a sponsor of the FC conference that it's corrupted by it's influence.
>>>>>>>>> I don't think that's the case... it's an academic research conference,
>>>>>>>>> a panel of researchers reviews (blindedly) the papers that anyone can
>>>>>>>>> submit, and selects the ones that are technically best. I haven't seen
>>>>>>>>> any evidence of corruption in this process but I'd be happy to answer
>>>>>>>>> any questions you have about it. This conference originated during the
>>>>>>>>> first crypto wars, when cryptography was on the verge becoming
>>>>>>>>> illegal; kowtowing to anti-privacy interested would be perverse
>>>>>>>>> against its culture. Also there's a session in the bitcoin workshop
>>>>>>>>> about (improving) Bitcoin privacy.
>>>>>>>>> http://fc15.ifca.ai/bitcoin/schedule.html <http://fc15.ifca.ai/bitcoin/schedule.html>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Mathias Grønnebæk
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Cody R. Wilson
>> codywilson@??? <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>
>>
>> The University of Texas School of Law
>> Class of 2014
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem <https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem