Here, this might clarify things.

Did you know it is ilegal for women to drive cars in Saudi Arabia? A
'victimless crime' ofcourse, similar to the exchange of money for goods..

If a woman hides her physique under a good enough hat, or cuts her hair and
goes driving, and someone who knows her sees her, and calls the police. Is
the person calling the police in the right or the wrong?

Since the person calling the police (Bob) is plotting and finding the brute
force to bring pain to this woman, could it not be said that Bob is the
master mind behind the aggression?

If so, is self defense justified?

Not saying this is a perfect analogy or that I agree with this thinking
100%.

But I hope it gives some perspective.



On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Brian Hoffman <brian@???> wrote:

> Perhaps.
>
>
> On Feb 6, 2015, at 2:29 PM, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@???> wrote:
>
> My argument is you've internalized your masters and their morality.
> On Feb 6, 2015 1:25 PM, "Brian Hoffman" <brian@???> wrote:
>
>> So your argument is drug kingpins gonna kingpin so it's all fair in love
>> and war? I've tried hard to follow your line of argument, but I will claim
>> ignorance here and move on.
>>
>> On another note, I thought that he wrote the hells angel comment in his
>> personal journal. They argued that wasn't him?
>>
>>
>> On Feb 6, 2015, at 2:15 PM, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@???> wrote:
>>
>> Hey buddy, you're in the wrong line of work if you can't stomach a
>> militant ethics or name your adversary.
>>
>> In this case, bourgouis legality and its attendant universals are keeping
>> you in check. You, with openbazaar no less.
>>
>> I expect you'll be singing on the stand, yes?
>> On Feb 6, 2015 1:09 PM, "Brian Hoffman" <brian@???> wrote:
>>
>>> So conspiracy to attempt murder is ethical now? I think I've heard
>>> everything. I'll buy that this trial wasn't about him trying to murder
>>> anyone, but that's a fucking weak argument. I like how you casually place
>>> murder in that "protection" bucket.
>>>
>>> On Feb 6, 2015, at 1:40 PM, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@???> wrote:
>>>
>>> Not only that, it is ethical to protect your suppliers and customers
>>> from ruin when another party threatens them with state violence.
>>>
>>> Ross' takedown was also necessary because of his ethics.
>>> On Feb 6, 2015 12:35 PM, "Adam B. Levine" <adam@???>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think the point was not that he committed murder or was accused of
>>>> committing murder, it was that the defense did not deny that his intention
>>>> was for someone to be murdered and he took steps that he thought would lead
>>>> to that outcome.
>>>>
>>>> Do you think it is an acceptable behavior to pay someone to murder
>>>> someone else because you think they threaten your illegal business?
>>>>
>>>> Adam B. Levine
>>>> Editor-in-Chief
>>>> Let's Talk Bitcoin! <http://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 7:45 AM, Julia Tourianski <
>>>> juliatourianski@???> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Drug trafficking, conspiracy to drug trafficking, money laundering
>>>>> conspiracy to hack, selling fraudulent identification... and variations of
>>>>> what I already mentioned. The murder thing was all bullshit and he was
>>>>> never indicted for it. the fact that people are so hung up on it even in
>>>>> this mailing list shows how effective of a slander strategy it was
>>>>> On Feb 6, 2015 9:36 AM, "Alicia Cruz" <accruz44@???> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ross didn't actually get charged with murder I thought? And was
>>>>>> convicted on drug trafficking, hacking, and money laundering. Julia, do you
>>>>>> have a full list of what the conviction was?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 11:17 PM, Julia Tourianski <
>>>>>> juliatourianski@???> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He was confident because "I have an answer for everything"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> unfortunately the defense was not allowed to present half of their
>>>>>>> evidence , and half of their witnesses were not allowed to speak either.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> His fait was sealed before it even started.
>>>>>>> On Feb 5, 2015 10:17 PM, "Juan S. Galt" <eljuangalt@???>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've yet to look a the evidence presented at the trial, havn't had
>>>>>>>> time. However, the CIA has admitted to false flag operations and Its hard
>>>>>>>> to argue that it is above them to do such a thing in this case,
>>>>>>>> particularly given how the Silk Road arguable threatens the status quo in
>>>>>>>> regards to the war on drugs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, without looking at the evidence, my loyalty is with Ross.
>>>>>>>> However, if those threats were indeed made, and Ross made them, than yes,
>>>>>>>> that alone would deserve moral judgment and appropriate social action.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 7:57 PM, Mathias Groennebaek <
>>>>>>>> mathias@???> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Have I missed something, or did the defence not really provide any
>>>>>>>>> particular proof of Ross not having ordered the hit on several people? And
>>>>>>>>> if so, why is it so hard to understand why he has been convicted, when
>>>>>>>>> there is an ample amount of proof that he did indeed do so?
>>>>>>>>> From a moral perspective, anyone involved in a murder should in my
>>>>>>>>> honest opinion be convicted of their crimes. The silk road trial and a
>>>>>>>>> discussion in general about drugs and their legality is a separate matter
>>>>>>>>> entirely to me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Juan S. Galt <eljuangalt@???
>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Anyone with enough mind to think about it for a few minutes knows
>>>>>>>>>> this trial has been rigged from the start.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "It is important to note that since there is no victim to Ross’s
>>>>>>>>>> alleged illegal activity this court case is not founded on contract law.
>>>>>>>>>> And given the 500+ variations of cannabis that was traded on the Silk Road,
>>>>>>>>>> it’s hard to say it was even anti-democratic with the plant being one of
>>>>>>>>>> the most popular recreational and medicinal drugs, which after decades of
>>>>>>>>>> controversy remains illegal."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://cointelegraph.com/news/113393/dread-pirate-roberts-imprisonment-vs-innovation-op-ed
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 7:24 PM, Brian Hoffman <
>>>>>>>>>> brian@???> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Touche
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2015, at 8:23 PM, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@???>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What's reddit?
>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2015 7:22 PM, "Brian Hoffman" <brian@???>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Meh it's just fun times. Don't tell me all the Reddit babble
>>>>>>>>>>>> has you rattled. I'm just messing with you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2015, at 8:18 PM, Cody R Wilson <
>>>>>>>>>>>> codywilson@???> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Brian, if I don't know better I'd say you were being snide.
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2015 7:10 PM, "Brian Hoffman" <brian@???>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And he endorses you for Bitcoin Foundation board as a result
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of your support.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2015, at 8:04 PM, Cody R Wilson <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> codywilson@???> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I've said before, I support him because of what he is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> accused. Not despite it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2015 7:02 PM, "Adam B. Levine" <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> adam@???> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does whether or not Ross did what he is being accused of and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tried for, matter?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adam B. Levine
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Editor-in-Chief
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's Talk Bitcoin! <http://www.letstalkbitcoin.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 3:40 PM, Julia Tourianski <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> juliatourianski@???> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I watched his father breakdown on the phone with Ross's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sister and my world has been frozen since that moment. I cannot imagine
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their pain even after witnessing it. His mother is staying very strong,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's not over for her.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One of the jury members was smiling when they announced it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm so disappointed in the basic nature of the common, the "Justice"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine did its job today. ..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2015 5:42 PM, "Cody R Wilson" <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> codywilson@???> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take heart. We knew this part was likely. We find the real
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> battle in challenging the US' acquisition of the server info.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can't argue the facts, but we can put them to proof on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2015 4:40 PM, "Alicia Cruz" <accruz44@???>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :(
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Matt <millsdmb@???>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Guilty on all charges :(:(
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 23, 2015 12:49 PM, "Andrew Miller" <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amiller@???> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > um by the way, did anyone notice what is happening in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Puerto Rico with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > the Bitcoin Foundation and that ZeroCash project,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which did present at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > the prior FinCrypto, is noticeably ABSENT from this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upcoming one? See:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > http://fc15.ifca.ai (yeah, interesting read)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think your point is that because there's no research
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paper about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zerocash or an extension being presented at FC or the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitcoin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> workshop, that it might be being squelched/unwelcome
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somehow by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> foundation influence there? That's not the case...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> members of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> zerocash team will be there and will probably present a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update of some kind at the rump session.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you're also suggesting that because the Bitcoin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Foundation is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a sponsor of the FC conference that it's corrupted by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's influence.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think that's the case... it's an academic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> research conference,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a panel of researchers reviews (blindedly) the papers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that anyone can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submit, and selects the ones that are technically best.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't seen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any evidence of corruption in this process but I'd be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happy to answer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any questions you have about it. This conference
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> originated during the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first crypto wars, when cryptography was on the verge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> becoming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> illegal; kowtowing to anti-privacy interested would be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perverse
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> against its culture. Also there's a session in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitcoin workshop
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about (improving) Bitcoin privacy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://fc15.ifca.ai/bitcoin/schedule.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Mathias Grønnebæk
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> _______________________________________________
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