jude is correct, kernel mode setting resolved this a shade under a
decade ago. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_setting
--Gravis


On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Jude Nelson <judecn@???> wrote:
>> (If I recall correctly, non-root X is only possible with systemd or
>> on openbsd, so that's a moot point for now.)
>
> From what I recall reading up on this, you should be able to run X as an
> unprivileged user on Linux without systemd as long as your video card has a
> driver with KMS support. IIRC, most distros ship a setuid X wrapper that
> opens the video card device file, does the privileged KMS ioctl()'s on it,
> and then hands them off the real X server by exec()'ing it without closing
> them. As long as X can go on to read sysfs and the input device files as
> well, you should be good to go without either udev or systemd. ChromeOS
> does this, for example, and it uses Upstart.
>
> -Jude
>
> On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Isaac Dunham <ibid.ag@???> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 12:59:51PM -0500, Neo Futur wrote:
>> > going further than just grub, I think it could be good for devuan to
>> > be the distro coming with different default packages, a few ideas :
>> >
>> > * grub/lilo as a default bootloader
>> > * trinity ( great fork of kde3 ) as a default DE
>> > * a grsecurity enabled kernel ?
>> > * eudev or other udev alternative
>> > * more generally always choosing the alternatives that are the most
>> > respectful of users and unix philosophy, as defaults
>>
>> I will note that there is an interesting complication with grsecurity
>> kernels:
>> The X server needs to be able to read sysfs or else have a connection
>> with a daemon that can, or drivers will not be properly loaded and
>> configured.
>> grsec has an option that makes sysfs and procfs unreadable except by
>> root, so that X needs udev or must run as root.
>>
>> (If I recall correctly, non-root X is only possible with systemd or
>> on openbsd, so that's a moot point for now.)
>> > another idea to make devuan different :
>> >
>> > * shipping a server oriented flavour, with no DE as a default, a grsec
>> > kernel as a default and only the packages needed for a server, that
>> > could also be used as a minimal install, small download, that you can
>> > later upgrade, add a DE . . .
>>
>> "No DE as a default": does this this mean not having GNOME/KDE but
>> perhaps X11, (v)twm or similar, xutils/xapps, and xterm?
>> Or does it mean no X?
>>
>> I presume it would include openssh and maybe a lightweight vim.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Isaac Dunham
>>
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