> (If I recall correctly, non-root X is only possible with systemd or
> on openbsd, so that's a moot point for now.)

>From what I recall reading up on this, you should be able to run X as an
unprivileged user on Linux without systemd as long as your video card has a
driver with KMS support. IIRC, most distros ship a setuid X wrapper that
opens the video card device file, does the privileged KMS ioctl()'s on it,
and then hands them off the real X server by exec()'ing it without closing
them. As long as X can go on to read sysfs and the input device files as
well, you should be good to go without either udev or systemd. ChromeOS
does this, for example, and it uses Upstart.

-Jude

On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Isaac Dunham <ibid.ag@???> wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 12:59:51PM -0500, Neo Futur wrote:
> > going further than just grub, I think it could be good for devuan to
> > be the distro coming with different default packages, a few ideas :
> >
> > * grub/lilo as a default bootloader
> > * trinity ( great fork of kde3 ) as a default DE
> > * a grsecurity enabled kernel ?
> > * eudev or other udev alternative
> > * more generally always choosing the alternatives that are the most
> > respectful of users and unix philosophy, as defaults
>
> I will note that there is an interesting complication with grsecurity
> kernels:
> The X server needs to be able to read sysfs or else have a connection
> with a daemon that can, or drivers will not be properly loaded and
> configured.
> grsec has an option that makes sysfs and procfs unreadable except by
> root, so that X needs udev or must run as root.
>
> (If I recall correctly, non-root X is only possible with systemd or
> on openbsd, so that's a moot point for now.)
> > another idea to make devuan different :
> >
> > * shipping a server oriented flavour, with no DE as a default, a grsec
> > kernel as a default and only the packages needed for a server, that
> > could also be used as a minimal install, small download, that you can
> > later upgrade, add a DE . . .
>
> "No DE as a default": does this this mean not having GNOME/KDE but
> perhaps X11, (v)twm or similar, xutils/xapps, and xterm?
> Or does it mean no X?
>
> I presume it would include openssh and maybe a lightweight vim.
>
> Thanks,
> Isaac Dunham
>
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