:: Re: [unSYSTEM] oh fuck yes
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Auteur: Robert Jakob
Date:  
À: System undo crew
Sujet: Re: [unSYSTEM] oh fuck yes
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On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 2:36 AM, Troy Benjegerdes <hozer@???> wrote:

> I can only hope it's some anarchist-tendencies folks who got cushy jobs
> at the NSA and convinced their bosses it would give 'the agency' an
> advantage over other agencies.
>
> All it takes is a 1% population of do-gooders inside the organization to
> incentivize the 5% psychopath population to do .... interesting things ....
>
> (also re the psychopath conversation earlier, drop the label if you like,
> and think of it as designing a system where bad behavior results in good
> things happening)
>
> On Thu, Dec 25, 2014 at 12:51:30PM -0500, Tim Patrick wrote:
> > Who are the people behind this interesting project? I've heard some say
> > assange is, is that true?
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 6:44 PM, Robert Jakob <rsjakob@???> wrote:
> >
> > > It is interesting and I'm interested in watching it unfold. You could
> > > also think about adding in a bounty feature. Like a journalist gets
> > > information about a company laundering drug money, but they have no
> proof.
> > > The journalist provides enough information to get the hackers started.
> > > They post the bounty, the community crowd-funds it, the hackers go to
> > > work. If they can get the proof, they collect the bounty or it will
> > > incentivize whistle blowers. Either way, you guys should go to a
> country
> > > that won't extradite you, because this is potentially even more
> > > provocative than Silk Road. Hackers and whistle blowers get more jails
> time
> > > than murders and rapists.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Caleb James DeLisle <cjd@???>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I think you misread it, the statement is "people are bad so if we wave
> > >> some greenbacks in their faces, they're gonna leak like a
> motherfucker"
> > >> Anyway the organizations which have the most psychopaths are also the
> > >> funniest when they leak
> > >>
> > >> On 12/24/2014 11:52 PM, snakecharmr wrote:
> > >> > "5% of the general population are psychopaths"
> > >> >
> > >> > This reeks of the authoritarian christian ethic that we need
> government
> > >> because people are bad. A story that tells how humans are evil
> because of
> > >> "original sin" or "psychopathy" or "ecological destruction" can
> easily be
> > >> used as a justification for killing or abusing humans. Have you ever
> met a
> > >> fundamentalist that hates people because of sin?
> > >> >
> > >> > Don't get me wrong, I know there is such a thing as psychopathy, but
> > >> physiologically it generally corresponds to a fucked up oxytocin
> system
> > >> (usually related to childhood malnourishment/abuse) and using
> psychopathy
> > >> as a excuse to control people sounds psychopathic to me.
> > >> >
> > >> > Ever heard of this scam? It's called a protection racket. It goes
> like
> > >> this: Joe and Moe work together, but act like they don't. Joe comes
> and
> > >> threatens to hurt you if you don't give him money. Moe comes by and
> says
> > >> "Watch out for this Joe guy, he's a real crook. Gimme some money and
> I'll
> > >> keep him off your back". Then you pay one or the other and they both
> run
> > >> off and share the funds...Long story short, the people who are trying
> to
> > >> protect you from psychopaths might themselves be psychopaths. They
> can even
> > >> feed your ego to help you believe their lies "You're a good person,
> but
> > >> there's loooots of bad people out there"...
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > As far as preventing double sale of information, that's basically
> the
> > >> insoluble problem with digital rights management: information is
> > >> replicable. If you pay $1M to keep someone's mouth shut and you don't
> know
> > >> who/where they are, there's no incentive for them not to release it,
> sell
> > >> it to someone else or just extort you again for it.
> > >> >
> > >> > I don't know if this slur thing is a good idea or not, but I don't
> buy
> > >> into the "people are bad so don't empower them" story.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Dec 24, 2014, at 2:30 PM, Caleb James DeLisle <cjd@???>
> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> Nothing, that's the brilliance of it. If goldman's can out-bid
> anyone
> > >> >> else then it's not leaking, just extortion. Goldman's keeps a
> secret
> > >> but
> > >> >> they have to pay their own money to the release crew.
> > >> >> What is a good question is if they get hit again by another crew,
> can
> > >> >> they claim that the first crew went back on their promise? Maybe it
> > >> will
> > >> >> iron itself out as a plain extortion racket but the optimum size
> of a
> > >> crew
> > >> >> will never be that large so when they scale up, they become weak
> and
> > >> >> vulnerable.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On 12/24/2014 11:12 PM, Robert Jakob wrote:
> > >> >>> Oh ok. I get it. So they build reputations for releasing valuable
> > >> >>> information and people contribute towards the group for each
> hack? I
> > >> may
> > >> >>> have missed it but will you have a user rating system or how does
> that
> > >> >>> work? What's stopping say, Goldman Sachs from buying back their
> own
> > >> >>> information? Because you said the same information can't be sold
> > >> twice.
> > >> >>> On Dec 24, 2014 3:07 PM, "Caleb James DeLisle" <cjd@???>
> wrote:
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>> Lone wolves will be the exception, the rule will be highly
> > >> disciplined
> > >> >>>> highly
> > >> >>>> regulated "release groups". Imagine lulzsec but with intelligence
> > >> agency
> > >> >>>> level
> > >> >>>> financing. These groups will have the promotion capability to
> inform
> > >> the
> > >> >>>> world
> > >> >>>> about the presence of information and garner the funding support.
> > >> >>>> Individual
> > >> >>>> leakers will need to approach a release group for distribution
> > >> otherwise
> > >> >>>> they
> > >> >>>> will not be taken seriously.
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> On 12/24/2014 09:43 PM, Robert Jakob wrote:
> > >> >>>>> I like the idea, but how do you know the information has any
> value?
> > >> >>>>> Also, how do you prevent people from reselling information?
> > >> >>>>> On Dec 24, 2014 1:32 PM, "Caleb James DeLisle" <cjd@???>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> ``
> > >> >>>>>> Its estimated that 5% of the general population are
> psychopaths.
> > >> >>>>>> Introducing financial incentive in an anonymous framework will
> > >> produce a
> > >> >>>>>> greater yield of leaked information than from say the ideology
> that
> > >> >>>> drove
> > >> >>>>>> patriots like Edward Snowden. For every idealist willing to
> > >> selflessly
> > >> >>>>>> sacrifice their freedom, assets and even risk their lives for a
> > >> greater
> > >> >>>>>> good, there are 1000 psychopaths willing to anonymously sell
> out
> > >> their
> > >> >>>>>> peers for material gain.
> > >> >>>>>> ''
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> Capitalist self-annihilation by the vampire zombie of Ayn Rand.
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> http://slur.io/
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> brb making popcorn
> > >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >> >>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > >> >>>>>>
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >> >>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > >> >>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >> >>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > >> >>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> _______________________________________________
> > >> >>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > >> >>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> > >> >>>
> > >> >> _______________________________________________
> > >> >> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > >> >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> > >> >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > >> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> > >> >
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> > >
> > >
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>
>
> --
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Troy Benjegerdes                 'da hozer'
> hozer@???
> 7 elements      earth::water::air::fire::mind::spirit::soul
> grid.coop

>
>       Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel,
>          nor try buy a hacker who makes money by the megahash

>
> _______________________________________________
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>