dear Ayan,

On Sun, 21 Dec 2014, Ayan George wrote:

> To be clear: I used "hate" as a rhetorical device. Although there is
> a lot of sincere talk about giving choice, you have to admit that
> there are quite a few posts from people who really dislike systemd (if
> not hate it).

This is true. At Dyne.org we do appreciate anyone contributing to a
constructive or even critical discussion, but aggression, sexism,
racism, hate speech of sorts and personal attacks were never and will
not be ever tolerated. Me and other VUAs believe that with the Devuan
project itself we are contributing in this direction.

> Anyway -- maybe it is a cultural difference but when it comes to
> bootstrapping projects I believe the hacker / programmer / FOSS /
> whatever subculture prefers to judge projects by their output and so
> far Devuan has very little to speak of.

We are starting. One can give us the time and trust we will do something
- or not! But already going around calling "fraudsters" the few public
representatives and the associated organization of this project is a
bit beyond the line of reasoning, I guess you will agree.

> I don't want to belabour this though. I genuinely thought Devuan was
> interesting.

Fine. I hope you will have another look later on, at the time of the
Debian Jessie release for instance.

> Finally I think there is a real problem with the doxing of Ruben
> Safir. The so-called "hackers" used public information that he
> himself publishes on his personal website so it didn't require any
> more than a little googling.

Indeed. But he is now claiming that I'm the author of a website
containing threats against him and his family, which is truly not the
case.

Seen from a certain point of view all this drama is entirely his
construction: came here, put forward criticism, heavily insulted the
first person replying him (me), posted his home address with a "come and
get me" sign, then now he is accusing me in public and private of being
responsible of anything that could happen to him or his kids.

Sincerely: I have been looking at all this drama unfolding in front of
my eyes without doing much else than patiently replying to his criticism
with facts and details (because I also believe it can be pertinent to
ask) and, only after that, silently banning him on behalf of a
collective decision for his insults and aggression. So now, in his
opinion, I should stand responsible for his peace of mind? I am not a
psychologist, but I do recognize some patterns in this sequence of
events.

Look: anyone can just try to "ruin my life" (sarcastic quotes) this way,
but still I don't believe I'm the origin of the problem: this is not a
condition I'm responsible for! and this is a public space so: can
happen. For what I'm concerned, since mr.Safir has already a list of
"enemies of this and that" on his website, he could have as well
constructed all of this autonomously, because - now yes, dramatically
enough - that's the mental space in which he is living in.

Said that, I will write it once again and without cut & paste: whoever
is responsible for putting hatred websites in retaliation to mr.Safir's
aggression: please refrain from doing that!! take them off and forget
the man. I'm not hurt by his aggression and I don't want him threatened
or even worst hurt in any way. And please in your life always think how
to reach peaceful solutions to such conflicts, because in this and other
cases it is the aggressor who is alone and perhaps the one who suffers
the most and there is no gain for anyone in making him/her suffer more.

> Still -- I think whatever leadership Devuan has should have denounced
> it by now.

There is a lot going on on this project and a new monthly press release
is almost ready now. We will address this in it too. If you have any
other reasonable suggestion on steps we can take to give peace of mind
to this man, please let us know and rest assured we will do our best.

ciao

--
Jaromil, Dyne.org Free Software Foundry (est. 2000)
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