On 15 December 2014 at 02:03, frank ernest <doark@???> wrote:
>> Hey guys!
>>
>> I'm wondering here... Who the hell told that the majority better knows
>> which path is the way to go? This is wrong, very wrong.
>>
>> Every time you see yourself at the majority's side, you must take a
>> step back and think about your position with extreme care, for real.
>> Democracy is the original attack of the 51%, against the 49%. The
>> needs of the many DOES NOT outweigh the needs of the few. This kind of
>> thinking make me sick.
>>
>> Please guys, don't take me wrong, but voting isn't a good decision
>> making tool. It stinks.
>
> I'm not sure if this is true or not, let's take a vote :)

Okay! ^_^

> Seriously though, having come from opensuse I've seen the debates,
> they stink. Most people don't even have a clue what systemd is, what
> it does and even more disappointing, what's wrong with it. The
> ignorance is life threatening. I have read some of systemd's code,
> it's acctually very well formatted C, but also very, very, glibc and
> gcc specific.

That's very sad... :-(

>> And it is even worse, when the majority is ignorant. No, I'm not
>> talking about Debian Developers, I'm talking about the country I was
>> born, so called "Brazil". Here, democracy does NOT work. Since 95% of
>> brazilian people are just a bunch of scumbags (that one that can not
>> even be used as a fertilizer, they are just useless). Sorry about the
>> bad words, but, that is the truth. Sad, but true.
>
> Please, if these "scumbags" really had the chance for education don't
> you think they'd take it? They are human beings. Perhaps you could
> refer to them as "The people who vote for whatever they are told to
> because they don't know better."

Yes, if people got a chance for education, they will take it.
Education in Brazil is a nightmare, it is almost absent.

Please, forgive my words... Sometimes, I'm too emotional, mostly
because people around me have no limits, no education, they are
clueless. For example, when you're crossing the street, using
crosswalk, some drivers honk a lot! They even scream! Unacceptable...
But, off-topic.

And I have no patience with ignorant people.

Nevertheless, I agree that all of those people, are victims of a very
bad country / system.

Unfortunately, they learn pretty fast about how to become scumbags...
I feel sorry for them...     :-/

>> So, democracy doesn't work when the majority sucks. But it might work
>> when the majority have education and knowledge. Nevertheless, I still
>> think that we can not make decisions by voting.
>>
>> And here comes the Scientific Method! By far, this is the best tool I
>> know to figure out which path is a better way to go. We need to test
>> and test almost all of the alternatives and then, make a decision
>> based on observation, based on a "real world" results.
>>
>> We need to be able to reproduce everything! Every single procedure
>> must be reproductible, since its creation.
>>
>>
>> For example: How to fork Debian?
>>
>> This is something that needs to be very well documented. Step by step,
>> then, we can test it millions of times, until it becomes perfect...
>> And this is just an example... That I would like to talk in a
>> dedicated thread later.
>>
>>
>> Lets use the science to help us make better decisions?!
>
> Umm, if we spend that much time testing "everything" we'd never get
> anything done.

Well, maybe we can optimize this process... I'm used to work on
process optimization and cost reduction, maybe I can help a bit here.

> My recommendation is that linux is modular, so for any one decision
> concerning what to support, provided that there are sufficient man power
> then both options may be supported. Or the changes from supporting one
> program should not make supporting any other more difficult.
> Look at the past, to your former heros, there once was a great debate about
> whether to use vi or emacs, do tell, therefore, which do we use now?

Good point! I'm seeing that it will be harder to make Devuan support
both systemd, as an option, and sysvinit-core but, it is doable.

The worse thing I'm seeing with this systemd fiasco at Debian, is the
lack of choice.

Thank you for your reply!

Best,
Thiago