On 12/07/2014 07:38 AM, David Harrison wrote:
> Unlurking here for a moment:
>
> IMO Devuan is at a stage where it could do with as many friends as
> possible, and to be seen as the right way to go.
>
> Systemd aside, labelling a whole tranche of software as 'antisocial'
> stifles those good vibes. Please can I suggest something less emotive,
> such as: 'open' and 'closed', 'inside' and 'outside'?
>
*** The Debian project is a society, that decided to use the systemd as
its default init system, opening the way to more dependency on it, at
the expense of other ways of solving a whole lot of issues covered by
this software, often duplicating or replacing existing solutions (e.g.,
IPC).

A part of the Debian community decided that was an unacceptable choice,
and went on to fork the distribution in order to reinstate what they
consider a saner environment. To me, that sounds like secession from
one society to form another. In that aspect, it's natural for this
society to consider that software antisocial.

Affectivity is in no way something negative, and certainly not as
negative as trying to *open* ways to less diversity *inside* a social
project, and impose *closed* solutions, although released as free
software, from the *outside*.

I'm sorry but I fail to understand how the concepts of open/closed, and
inside/outside are remotely relevant to that matter. Of course, if you
consider the issue from a monetary-transactional point of view, where
emotion does not exist by definition, as money is deemed to replace such
consideration, then you might want to avoid "stifling those good vibes".
But that sounds very much emotional to me.


> 'Antisocial' a word that many here associate with criminal
> activities thanks to the efforts of the newspapers.
>
*** On the contrary, criminal activity is *by definition* anti-social.
But then, the media, especially in the UK, tend to try and make
anti-social behavior acceptable by society. For example, the ongoing
"Child Sex Abuse inquiry" is trying to mask torture, murder, and
dismemberment of infants and children as "child sex" and "pedophilia".

> Imagine a potential convert whose use case forced them to look at
> closed, 'antisocial' code that had a less unfriendly name in some other
> distro's repos. They could justifiably wonder how much help to expect
> from the Devuan community. 'Antisocial' isn't just a word that
> discourages things. It thrice damns them.
>
*** Well, that is the whole idea of societies: you can accept their
social contract, or you can look somewhere else. You can also try to
understand them, or wage war on them. I've never heard so far a
software project mentioning that a program be anti-social. Whatever the
decision made, I find it a significant step that people consider
technology as not neutral.

Thank you anyway for your opinion,

==
hk

P.S.: disclaimer, I'm not part of the VUA group.

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