bash or similar scripts? They are static typed....

On December 6, 2014 4:03:42 AM GMT+00:00, "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duchene@???> wrote:
>Thanks for the comments! Those were some great thoughts.
>
>As I said in my original post, it was geared more toward discussion
>material - and I'm very pleased that Henrik and Vlad decided to speak.
>There really is no right answer to the language question, no perfect
>tool.
>My opinions of Python still stand. I've never felt comfortable with the
>way
>that Python has wiggled its way into becoming a Linux dependency,
>especially given its status as a "de-facto" language with no official
>standard that can be backward compatible. It is a fact that
>dynamically
>typed languages are somewhat unpredictable in comparison to statically
>typed. Python is not a bad language, but it has what an "old school"
>programmer like myself would consider to be several flaws. For example,
>I
>despise garbage collection with extreme prejudice. Flaws in the
>garbage
>collector can lead to memory leaks that cannot be corrected until a new
>runtime is issued upstream, offering developers using the language a
>freaking nightmare in the meantime.
>
>
>> Oh, and Microsoft is planning to open source and port .NET to Linux,
>please everybody hold the 'M$ is Cancer' comments for a sec, C# is a
>pretty
>decent language for application development, >IMO it blows Java out of
>the
>water and it might have its uses.
>
>I wouldn't hold your breath on that one. C# has not been part of an
>official standard since version 2. Versions 3 and 4 are not covered,
>except by whatever "half a loaf" terms that Microsoft decides to offer.
>Even so, what has been released as an ISO standard with an explicit
>patent
>grant is a piecemeal standard of version 2 with several critical
>libraries
>missing from being a full cross-platform implementation. As for this
>new
>"open" version, I'll believe it when I see it. Microsoft can be as
>much of
>a "patent monger" as Oracle is with Java.
>
>In my mind, neither is worthy of trust, unless they want to place the
>current version of C# or Java under the auspices of the ISO/Ecma with
>an
>explicit RAND grant. As it stands both languages are a lawsuit waiting
>to
>happen.
>
>Thanks for the thoughts!
>T.J.
>
>
>
>
>
>On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 9:17 PM, Vlad <2389vbl@???> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Henrik
>>
>> I think that you nailed a lot of the problems still plaguing Python
>on the
>> head, however OCaml and Modula are a bit obscure and lack the
>extensive
>> libraries that Python brings to the table, moreover a lot of people
>know
>> python, it is used extensively in other distros, and it is a
>relatively
>> easy language to learn, I took a look at OCaml, and while it had some
>very
>> neat features I really don't think that it is something that many
>people
>> would like to learn or use.
>> This is of course just a first impression based on a cursory look at
>it, I
>> might be wrong, I am kind of curious about OCaml.
>>
>> We should also consider Go and Julia IMO.
>>
>> Oh, and Microsoft is planning to open source and port .NET to Linux,
>> please everybody hold the 'M$ is Cancer' comments for a sec, C# is a
>pretty
>> decent language for application development, IMO it blows Java out of
>the
>> water and it might have its uses.
>>
>> On December 6, 2014 5:01:35 AM EET, Hendrik Boom
><hendrik@???>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It appears to be T.J. Duchene who said, in an article entitled
>"[Dng]
>>> More ranting thoughts [Re: Something wrong with devuan mail list?",
>>> which I can't reply to directly:
>>>
>>> Lastly, I think that writing system management tools in Python is a
>>>> terrible idea. Python is a language with "duck tying", which
>means that
>>>> a lot of errors are only detectable when the software is being run
>on
>>>> your setup. One sight change and "klabooey" - errors to STDOUT. I
>can
>>>> certainly think of other reasons to dislike systemd, but the fact
>that
>>>> the management tools are written in Python pretty much tops that
>>>> list. It's not an anti-Python rant, anymore than I hate Perl. I
>>>> just do not feel that Python is the right tool for the system
>jobs,
>>>> given that it: a) is duck-typed, b) has no fixed standard, and
>>>> c)
>>>> versions of Python are incompatible.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This seems to be a coplaint against languages tht are not statically
>>> typed rather than against duck-typing. You need a conplete review
>of
>>> the entire code with a static type-check to get a lot of errors
>caught
>>> without haveing to encounter them during execution. Duck-typing
>itself
>>> does not stand in the way -- you can statially check a duck-typed
>>> language as long as it requires the progrmmer to declare the types
>of
>>> enough identifers.
>>>
>>> What you seem to want is a run-time secure, typed language.
>>>
>>> May I suggest a look at some compiled, garbage-collected languages
>for
>>> scripting? Two I like are Modula 3 and OCaml. The people at Jane
>>> Street have succeeded in configuring their OCaml for use as a
>scripting
>>> language -- compiled on demand by a suitable #! line at the start of
>>> the script file. Since they deal in finance (and I suspect
>>> autamated
>>> trading, though I don't really know), they have severe
>>> security requirements.
>>>
>>> Scheme is perhaps also a possiblity. Besides being the official
>>> (but not statically typed) scripting language for the GNU project,
>>> there's also Typed Rackeet, a completely independently implemented
>>> statically typed version of the langauge.
>>>
>>> Any of these would beat shell scripting for reliability. Some might
>>> even be convenient.
>>>
>>> -- hendrik
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
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>>> Dng@???
>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
>>>
>>>
>> --
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>>
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