Franco Lanza wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 01, 2014 at 12:22:08AM -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote:
>>> I confirm this.
>>> Our intention is to offer a distro where you can be totally systemd
>>> free.
>>> But there is NO point in deny it if someone want to use it, assuming
>>> this don't destroy the rest of the choices.
>> Aye, but that's the rub. The systemd developers are doing everything they
>> can to force systemd on the rest of us - by gobbling up functionality into a
>> monolithic hairball, and creating lots of dependencies.
>>
>> It sure looks like allowing it anywhere is almost a guarantee that it will
>> engulf and devour everywhere.
> Probably i'm not clear enough.
> This is the philosophy side: we give freedom even to eat shit if someone
> really like to.
>
> This is the reality side: we will give shit only if we can. If we
> can't, no shit, sorry.
>
> This mean that by principes we will try to let systemd be an option
> assuming that it can be done. If there is no way to have it as an option
> and you must choose "or systemd in whole system or no systemd", well,
> our choice will be no systemd.
>
>> "a distro where you can be totally systemd free"
>> and
>> "if someone want to use it, assuming this don't destroy the rest of the
>> choices"
>>
>> are fundamentally incompatible.
> Ok, assuming you right, we will try to be closer to it as feasible.
>
>
>> At the very least, what say we achieve the first, BEFORE, putting any energy
>> into the second.
> The very first file of devuan is a pinning out of systemd-sysv at -1
> level pinning. This should be an answer on this.
>

I think it has to go deeper than that. This has to happen in the
installer, before pinning comes into play. That means some combination of:
- metadata in the repo (i.e., not marking any systemd component as
essential)
- modifying the installer, or at least the installer configuration
- fixing debootstrap (the patch to bug #668001) so that -include and
-exclude statements work properly

That would seem the place to start.

And right after that, going through the Debian repo to find any package
with a dependency that leads back to systemd (or one of its relatives),
and recompiling & repackaging it to depend on either:
- something else, and/or
- a metapackage that defaults to something else (and creating that
metapackage, if necessary)


Miles Fidelman




--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra