On Nov 30, 2014 3:45 PM, "Noel Torres" <envite@???> wrote:
>
> On Sunday, 30 de November de 2014 18:12:02 Keith escribió:
> > Supporting (systemd) in any form while forking seems like a lost cause.
> > Why support it at all ? Its too much work. The fork itself will put an
> > end
> > to (systemd) in very short order.
>
> We should not support it *now*. And probably you are right about systemd's
> future. But that is not the point. Freedom is.
> >
> > Systemd is the wrong way down a one way street of sorts. Freedom is
> > straight
> > ahead and Sytemd made a left at the light.
>
> That seems like a hate speech. Wrong way.
> >

> > (Systemd) is not here to stay.  Linux users of the future will have
> > Linux
> > distributions void of such a thing.    Its like "Unity" .   It pretty
> > much
> > killed of "Ubuntu".      At one point they were rising to the top of the
> > distro
> > charts.  Unity did them in for sure.

> >
> > Users fled to MINT. I saw this happening... Now Mint is at huge risk
> > of
> > being dragged down the (systemd) dirt road. I am not anti (systemd).
> >
> > Quite the contrary. It is what will separate a true Linux distro from
> > junkware
> > going forward. It was stated by :(<hellekin@???>) that A foul
> > word
> > (F##K) Purity - in favor of diversity was what would make devUan a
> > success.
>
> Junkware? That seems hate speech too.Was Apache junkware in its first
versions?
> or Linux?
> >
> > I disagree, and I do so without foul language. The implication from
> > reading the
> > comment was that systemd should in someway be supported. I strongly
> > disagree.
> > Systemd is very bad, and we should be happy about forking from it.
>
> We do not fork from systemd. We fork from a distribution that chose to
have it
> by default against its users.
>
> [...]
> >
> > If users here want systemd then that is fine... Simply visit Debian, or
> > Red Hat
> > and start your download. I don't think support for it is a good way to
> > start the
> > fork. Systemd should only exist on a Government server... After all.,,,
> > Its their baby..
>
> Wrong way to go. Kicking users out of Devuan because they want systemd is
not
> what I understand as supporting users' freedom. Having systemd support is
not
> a good step in starting the fork, but rejecting it forever just now is a
> concept error.
>
> We should not waste efforts in supporting or modifying systemd now, but
we must
> do it in the future, if feasible.
>
> And saying "Systemd should only exist on a Government server... After
all.,,,
> Its their baby." is plain wrong. We are not here to hate systemd. We are
here
> to defend users's freedom to use whichever init system they want.
> > >
> > Diversity ? Do you mean support support both...?
> >
> We should support several init systems. sysvinit, upstart, and others
that may
> be out there and come in the future... including systemd. Just not waste
effort
> in them *now*.
>

> > If that is the intent I suggest it is a great error.  Systemd is what
> > will make us
> > great.  It does this even now...    But support it...  Not on my
> > machine !

>
> Do not confuse support for something with installing something on every
> machine. Freedom is the point. Debian will not support users's freedom. We
> should.
>
> Systemd in Devuan is not a priority, at all. Rejecting users' freedom to
chose
> it is not an option.
>
> Regards
>
> Noel
> er Envite
>
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I think your missing the consensual point here. Systemd is not an init
system. It is becoming an all inclusive operating system. If the entire
point of this system is to get away from systemd and its ideals, why would
we put forth any effort to ensure its continued use/growth.

And your talk about hate speech is a problem. Emotions are inseparable
from the human condition. Identifying a problem, feeling strongly about
that problem, and voicing disagreement and opinion on said problem is not
hate speech. Your responses beg me to ask the question.

'Who do you work for?'