On Sunday, 30 de November de 2014 18:12:02 Keith escribió:
> Supporting (systemd) in any form while forking seems like a lost cause.
> Why support it at all ? Its too much work. The fork itself will put an
> end
> to (systemd) in very short order.

We should not support it *now*. And probably you are right about systemd's
future. But that is not the point. Freedom is.
>
> Systemd is the wrong way down a one way street of sorts. Freedom is
> straight
> ahead and Sytemd made a left at the light.

That seems like a hate speech. Wrong way.
>

> (Systemd) is not here to stay.  Linux users of the future will have
> Linux
> distributions void of such a thing.    Its like "Unity" .   It pretty
> much
> killed of "Ubuntu".      At one point they were rising to the top of the
> distro
> charts.  Unity did them in for sure.

>
> Users fled to MINT. I saw this happening... Now Mint is at huge risk
> of
> being dragged down the (systemd) dirt road. I am not anti (systemd).
>
> Quite the contrary. It is what will separate a true Linux distro from
> junkware
> going forward. It was stated by :(<hellekin@???>) that A foul
> word
> (F##K) Purity - in favor of diversity was what would make devUan a
> success.

Junkware? That seems hate speech too.Was Apache junkware in its first versions?
or Linux?
>
> I disagree, and I do so without foul language. The implication from
> reading the
> comment was that systemd should in someway be supported. I strongly
> disagree.
> Systemd is very bad, and we should be happy about forking from it.

We do not fork from systemd. We fork from a distribution that chose to have it
by default against its users.

[...]
>
> If users here want systemd then that is fine... Simply visit Debian, or
> Red Hat
> and start your download. I don't think support for it is a good way to
> start the
> fork. Systemd should only exist on a Government server... After all.,,,
> Its their baby..

Wrong way to go. Kicking users out of Devuan because they want systemd is not
what I understand as supporting users' freedom. Having systemd support is not
a good step in starting the fork, but rejecting it forever just now is a
concept error.

We should not waste efforts in supporting or modifying systemd now, but we must
do it in the future, if feasible.

And saying "Systemd should only exist on a Government server... After all.,,,
Its their baby." is plain wrong. We are not here to hate systemd. We are here
to defend users's freedom to use whichever init system they want.
> >
> Diversity ? Do you mean support support both...?
>
We should support several init systems. sysvinit, upstart, and others that may
be out there and come in the future... including systemd. Just not waste effort
in them *now*.

> If that is the intent I suggest it is a great error.  Systemd is what
> will make us
> great.  It does this even now...    But support it...  Not on my
> machine !

Do not confuse support for something with installing something on every
machine. Freedom is the point. Debian will not support users's freedom. We
should.

Systemd in Devuan is not a priority, at all. Rejecting users' freedom to chose
it is not an option.

Regards

Noel
er Envite