" I'm used to just sort of ignoring the attempts to
integrate wall street and make Bitcoin "mainstream", it's obviously
appealing to bitcoin business people who want to make money,
potentially dangerous since they want to cooperate/collude with
regulators, eitherway it's not my bag. But maybe there's more to it
than that."

On this point, my impression of the unSystem group/mailinglist/agora is
that the spearheaded focus over the last few months/year, has been wholly
commendable and whilst not entirely a losing battle; asymmetric warfare
should be thought of as a much more effective and preferable approach to
achieving the vast set of goals/desires expressed here.

Seeing this interview appear feels like one of the few times there has been
space to express some misgivings about the extreme amount of intellectual
and emotional labour that is going into protecting bitcoin from mainstream
adoption on the terms set out by entities such as the bitcoin foundation
(among others). I definitely believe that engineering efforts such as Dark
Wallet are useful, in a sort of monkey wrench modus operandi but it seems
more effective in the field that Cody has previously set out; that of
narrative spectacle or in doing what the situation "deems impossible".

Bitcoin is and was disruptive, and it will continue to be, but the
territory available to claim in any form of skirmish (or war as it is
sometimes defined here), through engineering means or otherwise is
diminishing, rapidly. It doesn't seem entirely futile to assert another
front at this moment - whether that be integration of wall street or not -
broadening the strategies (and the potential for others to participate)
doesn't seem like a bad idea.

It's my impression that the value left in what is being fought over, is
more present and evident in the minds, skill and ambition of those
sparring, rather than the product or technology that is perceived to be at
stake. I don't want to speak out of place, because there is a (fair)
reputational hierarchy present within discussion here. But it seems there
are many more opportunities available beyond the sanctity of bitcoin that
would be worth considering in this moment.

If pushed to substantiate that, Sterling's definition for the Internet of
Things battle front
<http://bbs.boingboing.net/t/bruce-sterlings-the-epic-struggle-of-the-internet-of-things/41061>is
compelling or to stay with the thread of wealth distribution, network
barter (large scale exchange of resources enabled by algorithms) might be
worth considering.

Feel free to disregard but I thought I'd take the opportunity to voice it
whist it was available.

On 5 November 2014 20:23, Andrew Miller <amiller@???> wrote:

> I loved this interview.
>
> This particularly stuck with me:
> "If you wind up in a situation where these guys win, where Bitcoin
> actually displaces the dollar and becomes the global reserve currency,
> every cut corner and every political error in their deep thinking will
> become the new chains that bind humanity."
>
> This suggestion was really surprising to me: "My suggestion for
> Bitcoin would be to integrate Wall Street as fast as humanly possible.
> ... If Bitcoin is gonna drift into Wall Street, let's teach them some
> of our bad habits. Let us make them like us, rather than us becoming
> like them." I'm used to just sort of ignoring the attempts to
> integrate wall street and make Bitcoin "mainstream", it's obviously
> appealing to bitcoin business people who want to make money,
> potentially dangerous since they want to cooperate/collude with
> regulators, eitherway it's not my bag. But maybe there's more to it
> than that.
>
> And this part here:
> "We've gotten pretty good at this idea that with enough eyes all bugs
> are shallow - that's the classic saying about open source security.
> But we now have a new set of security problems, which is not about
> finding bugs, but about analysing motives. So we need lots of eyes
> analysing motives, finding out whether or not we're basically shooting
> ourselves in the foot here."
> basically matches how I express my research direction. We need to do
> as good a job with engineering/modeling of incentive structures as we
> did with cryptography in the 80s-90s.
>
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Caleb James DeLisle <cjd@???> wrote:
> >
> > ``If these libertarians would be good enough to grow the hell up and
> become anarchists like normal people, then perhaps they would start to get
> serious about controlling centralized authorities rather than fantasizing
> that they will cease to exist.''
> >
> > There are occasions when I feel like my mind is tuned in on some mystical
> > subspace thought-sharing-channel and right now would be one of them.
> >
> > I suppose it's also a decent time to announce that on the 15th, I'll be
> > speaking on exactly that:
> >
> >
> https://github.com/squatconf/talks/blob/master/confirmed/united_as_one_divided_by_zero.md
> >
> > Also (in case you missed the mail) genjix and substack will also be
> speaking.
> >
> >
> > On 11/05/2014 07:12 PM, Ben Vickers wrote:
> > > Beyond fanship, I'm super curious to know what the response is of those
> > > reading here?
> > >
> > > Because in a way it feels like the interview is a bit of a call to
> action
> > > and/or rebuttal of the subjects commonly discussed here.
> > >
> > > On 5 November 2014 17:29, Amir Taaki <genjix@???> wrote:
> > >
> > >> im a fan of him too.
> > >> wish i made that wedding, it sounded great.
> > >>
> > >> On 11/05/2014 05:22 PM, Mike Gogulski wrote:
> > >>> Well done, Aaron!
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm a big fan of Vinay -- heck, I had him officiate at my wedding
> last
> > >>> year. Seeing him pin down some of his thinking on Bitcoin like this
> is
> > >>> great.
> > >>>
> > >>> Peace,
> > >>> Mike
> > >>>
> > >>> On 11/05/2014 05:36 PM, Aaron van Wirdum wrote:
> > >>>> This is probably gonna be a tough crowd (or maybe not), but I know
> > >>>> that at least some of you know and respect Vinay Gupta, so you might
> > >>>> be interested in my interview with our global resilience guru:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>
> http://bitcoinmagazine.com/18000/bitcoin-is-teaching-realism-to-libertarians-an-interview-with-old-school-cypherpunk-vinay-gupta/
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Cheers, Aaron.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > >>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > >>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> _______________________________________________
> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>