Eric Schmidt: How do you know if you've won?

Julian Assange: It's not possible to win this kind of thing. This is a
continuous striving that people have been doing for a long time. Of
course, there are many individual battles that we win, but it is the
nature of human beings that they lie and cheat and deceive. Organised
groups of people who do not lie and cheat and deceive find each other
and get together. Because they have that temperament, they are more
efficient, because they are not lying and cheating and deceiving each
other. That is a very old struggle between opportunists and
collaborators. I don't see that going away. I think we can make some
significant advances and perhaps it is the making of these advances and
being involved in that struggle that is good for people. The process is
part of the end game. It's not just to get somewhere in the end; rather,
this process of people feeling that it is worthwhile to be involved in
that sort of struggle, is in fact worthwhile for people.