Mostly, fair criticism of me: I was thinking of Skype rather than the
author, and I was criticising them in general, rather than paying
specific attention to the author or even the content of the article.
My bad.

I know that Skype's architecture was originally P2P, but what is also
clearly true is that they retained IP, and that's what prevented it
being a truly decentralised system (otherwise, again, there would have
been nothing to sell).

Also, I didn't totally ignore the content of the article; the whole
flavour to me is, "you don't have to get into bed with the regulators
to make it work", which to me was disingenuous when their approach was
to duck and dive until it became a huge business, and then just sell
out (again, talking about the owners in general here, sorry for
smearing the author if it is not deserved).

The aggressive tone was a bit uncalled for given that I wrote this:
> Feel free to correct me :)
But OK, whatever.

Adam



On 05/27/2014 09:28 PM, Josh Walker wrote:
> ​​Well, at least Kristov resisted the fallacy. Since it's not your
> claim (that Jackson's opinions are irrelevant due to association
> with Skype), I'll forgive you for not going further. I, however,
> fueled by my morning amphetamines, because I am already curious
> about the same thing -- there /are /questions I have, regarding
> such unSystem-like opinions coming from an ex-Skype guy. I,
> however, theorize that his time with Skype may have jaded him, and
> am curious when he left Skype and why.
>
> So let's break off here, and I'm going to answer my own questions
> while also making a point.
>
> Adam: I certainly hope you /are/ in the minority here, because I
> hold Amir and Cody in fairly high regard, and I generally unSystem
> is comprised mostly of similar mindset. Which is to say, logical
> and dispassionate. But, I realize this is just a mailing-list.
>
> Let's forget what he said in that article--which was quite lovely;
> I'd be impressed if he were faking such unique (among his peers)
> sentiment--and just look at his history. I'd expect his LinkedIn
> might shed light. And it does! It's full of all sorts of things.
> It's okay, I've got this. I'll paste it below, and even highlight
> some stuff, which -- to me, at least -- solidifies my comprehension
> of his worldview. But /if you did nothing else/ you should have
> checked to see when he became the /former/ COO of Skype, since that
> seems /absolutely critical/ to your assertion that we should be
> cautious in listening to him. Without any evidence that he was a
> part of creating a surveillance-friendly Skype either actively or
> by conscious negligence, that is textbook association fallacy,
> which is the most basic of logical fallacies.
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy>
>
> Turns out *he left Skype in 2007.* Skype wasn't even sold to
> Microsoft until 2011. Back then, Skype completely peer-to-peer. In
> fact, the etymology of the name Skype came from Sky P2P
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skype>. All that, from just seconds
> on google and a couple clicks. And all this is without even
> mentioning something else obvious: While I've never been
> particularly "statist", my current self would have a few things to
> discuss with my several-years-ago self, to bring me up to speed
> with things. My 2007 self was a teen -- 7 years is a while -- and
> though I didn't always agree or follow laws, I pretty much still
> had the mindset that if you don't like jail, don't break laws; and
> if you don't like the laws, change them. Democracy! I like to think
> in 7 more years I'll be even more enlightened.
>
> So, /given/ that you have some form of internet access to have
> read Coindesk and sent email; and /given/ that despite this you
> have committed the must simple and egregious of logical fallacies:
> I cannot and would not tell you that you must take advice from
> Jackson. (Do you disagree with anything he said? Or was your plan
> to disregard the advice, be it good or bad, purely based on the
> individual speaking? Do you begin to understand why that is unwise,
> and highly illogical?) But I can say that given what I've seen from
> /you/, I have evidence that you do not process information
> logically, and I've seen that you will pass along meritless drivel
> amounting to your belief that his opinion is suspect without any
> supporting evidence. So I /can say/, logically, that /your
> /opinions ought to be suspect until such time as you can satisfy me
> otherwise, and I recommend others exercise the same caution, based
> on all of the above.
>
> -Josh
>
>
>
> -------
>
>
> Partner
> <https://www.linkedin.com/search?search=&title=Partner&sortCriteria=R&keepFacets=true&currentTitle=CP&trk=prof-exp-title>
>
>
>
> Mangrove Capital Partners
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/104962?trk=prof-exp-company-name>
>
> October 2007 – Present (6 years 8 months)Luxembourg
>
> I met the Mangrove team during my days as Chief Operating Officer
> of Skype and joined the firm as a Partner in 2007, after a 25 years
> career in the Telecom industry. During those years, I had the
> opportunity to work for, grow and start myself a dozen different
> businesses.
>
> At Mangrove, my first role is to lead our effort in the Mobile
> space, an exciting market being created right in front of our eyes.
> Of course, I look for big ideas. But above this, I look for the
> passion, drive and ambition in a founding team, and a genuine
> reason why they believe they can dominate their sector. I like to
> work closely with unusual entrepreneurs and need to feel some
> connection to them. Then, I also use my previous experience in
> fast-growing environments to help our companies scale and develop
> their revenue-generating activities. I currently serve on the
> boards of CiteeCar Evertale, Jolicloud, Pops, SohoOS and Waratek.
>
>
> My Passion !
> <https://www.linkedin.com/search?search=&title=My+Passion+%21&sortCriteria=R&keepFacets=true&currentTitle=CP&trk=prof-exp-title>
>
>
>
> This and that
> <https://www.linkedin.com/search?search=&company=This+and+that&sortCriteria=R&keepFacets=true&trk=prof-exp-company-name>
>
> 2000 – 2010 (10 years)
>
> Aside from my direct activities, I enjoy working with like minded
> entrepreneurs and business people across all fields. From
> Induction moulding companies through to car manufacturing. Yet,
> always taking advantage of my operational experience - especially
> in high growth companies.
>
> I have been fortunate enough to be directly involved, and in many
> cases responsible for creating and scaling multiple 100 million
> euro operations. This is a detailed task, with many pitfalls.
>
> I have entered contracts for 60 million euros, that went bad the
> day after - and been at the receiving end of the largest Fraud
> attempt ever seen by VISA. Yes, mistakes - but we learn from them.
> More importantly, I gain confidence, knowing that we can still push
> ahead. Probably a rare attitude from a COO
>
> I have changed European law through a process of lobbying from the
> beginning.Now, anyone in Europe can apply to a mobile operator for
> MVNO./[Cricket, Virgin Mobile, etc. Carriers who sublet and don't
> own the backbone. -Josh]/ Many businesses have been created using
> this model, but in 1997 things were different. Without the changes
> going through the political system, these would not exist now. I
> did not spend money, but I did spend time and effort for some
> years, banging against a wall.
>
>
> ZYB
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/86973?trk=prof-exp-company-name>
>
>
> Advisor to Board
> <https://www.linkedin.com/search?search=&title=Advisor+to+Board&sortCriteria=R&keepFacets=true&currentTitle=CP&trk=prof-exp-title>
>
>
>
> ZYB
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/86973?trk=prof-exp-company-name>
>
> July 2007 – July 2008 (1 year 1 month)
>
> Advising board, and CEO on Product and Scaling . Both technology
> and organisation
>
>
> FON
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/16828?trk=prof-exp-company-name>
>
>
> Board Member
> <https://www.linkedin.com/search?search=&title=Board+Member&sortCriteria=R&keepFacets=true&currentTitle=CP&trk=prof-exp-title>
>
>
>
> FON
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/16828?trk=prof-exp-company-name>
>
> January 2006 – December 2007 (2 years)
>
> FON, the largest wifi network in the World provides massive insight
> into viral consumer behavious, the growth of the self provision
> movement - and how wifi is growing throughout the worls.
>
>
> skype
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/7299?trk=prof-exp-company-name>
>
>
> VP & Director of Paid Services
> <https://www.linkedin.com/search?search=&title=VP+%26+Director+of+Paid+Services&sortCriteria=R&keepFacets=true&currentTitle=CP&trk=prof-exp-title>
>
>
>
> skype
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/7299?trk=prof-exp-company-name>
>
> August 2004 – December 2007 (3 years 5 months)
>
> VP Operations / COO / all sorts of versions of this disguise the
> fact that Michael's running the revenue generating activities of
> Skype - working with his colleagues, and long term friends.
>
>
> eBay
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/1482?trk=prof-exp-company-name>
>
>
> Management Group
> <https://www.linkedin.com/search?search=&title=Management+Group&sortCriteria=R&keepFacets=true&currentTitle=CP&trk=prof-exp-title>
>
>
>
> eBay
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/1482?trk=prof-exp-company-name>
>
> October 2005 – October 2007 (2 years 1 month)London/Luxembourg
>
> eBay 'Power of Three' group led by CEO Meg Whitman, /[CEO of
> Hewlett-Packard, now... -J]/and the entire leadership team ensured
> that the 3 business units worked together to create great product,
> synergy and value.
>
>
> Tele2 Europe S.A.
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/2831?trk=prof-exp-company-name>
>
>
> MVNO
> <https://www.linkedin.com/search?search=&title=MVNO&sortCriteria=R&keepFacets=true&currentTitle=CP&trk=prof-exp-title>
>
>
>
> Tele2 Europe S.A.
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/2831?trk=prof-exp-company-name>
>
> 2001 – 2003 (2 years)
>
> After creating the MVNO business model, I went on to lead the
> group responsible for rolling out MVNO across Europe. We achieved 9
> countries, after lobbying, commercial negotiations and extensive
> marketing innovation. Reported to group CEO
>
>
> tele2
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/2831?trk=prof-exp-company-name>
>
>
> Inventor of MVNO
> <https://www.linkedin.com/search?search=&title=Inventor+of+MVNO&sortCriteria=R&keepFacets=true&currentTitle=CP&trk=prof-exp-title>
>
>
>
> tele2
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/2831?trk=prof-exp-company-name>
>
> 1996 – 2003 (7 years)
>
> The first MVNO came from a realisation that the CLEC model for
> landline telcos could be forced upon mobile operators. The
> technical solution was comparable, and the position my company had
> was perfect to add mobile services onto a fixed line product. The
> next step was changing the law, and then getting the agreement.
>
>
> Interxion
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/10804?trk=prof-exp-company-name>
>
>
> Nothing to with
> <https://www.linkedin.com/search?search=&title=Nothing+to+with&sortCriteria=R&keepFacets=true&currentTitle=CP&trk=prof-exp-title>
>
>
>
> Interxion
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/10804?trk=prof-exp-company-name>
>
> 1997 – 1998 (1 year)
>
> This is not correct. But LinkedIn won't let me delete it. I never
> worked at Interxion
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Kristov Atlas
> <author@???
> <mailto:author@anonymousbitcoinbook.com>> wrote:
>
> This was my first thought as well, Adam. Doesn't negate anything
> the guy says, Skype is not exactly a shining beacon of bucking the
> State.
>
> -Kristov
>
> On 05/27/2014 01:06 PM, Adam Gibson wrote:
>
> But the founders of Skype sold out (and the very fact that they
> *could* sell out just proves it is not a decentralised system like
> Bitcoin). I'm not sure I want to take advice on how to deal with
> the regulation monster from people who took the money and ran,
> allowing their creation to become an NSA surveillance tool.
>
> I seem to be in a minority of one here. Feel free to correct me :)
>
>
> On 05/27/2014 01:46 PM, Amir Taaki wrote:
>
> http://www.coindesk.com/__bitcoin-regulation-lessons-__early-days-skype/
>
>
<http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-regulation-lessons-early-days-skype/>
>
> finally someone speaks sense.
>
>
>
>
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