client server is a problem, when you place a hosting responsibility on one
person, when the hosting is costly, and where the client is not actively
participating...i am not sure what the context of this is, but I think this
is a major problem with the internet, and we should move towards a
torrenting model for all content, the internet is currently like a more
extreme version of the music charts, where we have certain websites pushed
on us, because they can provide enough bandwidth (youtube vs other video
hosting)

"but I'm feeling that we need to build tools which don't just
give freedom but really *teach* freedom. " when someone uses a tool which
gives freedom, they begin to learn about freedom, learn about the benefits
of freedom , i.e. wiki etc.



On 24 March 2014 20:12, Troy Benjegerdes <hozer@???> wrote:

> Here's a half-assed attempt at a website for a *server* that gives you, the
> person who plugs it in and interacts with ALL the tools and freedom to
> remake it in any way you see fit. http://q3u.be/
>
> Client-server isn't the problem. AFS went from a tool of the totalitarian
> academic-industrial complex to this amazing capability for me to run my
> own damn cloud server accessible anywhere in the world when IBM released
> OpenAFS into the wild.
>
> Bitcoin gives the same freedom if you download the code, and hack yourself
> out an altcoin, or propose crypto-basic-income-guarantees (
> http://minco.me)
>
> However, if you stick to web-wallets and half-assed discussions with
> developers with their heads so far up the money-hole they can't see
> exploits
> I can drive a couple of cryptocoin disruptive technology start-ups through,
> then you are back on the totalitarian serve the servers road.
>
> If you can build it yourself, that's freedom. If there's a black box that
> says 'trust me', watch out.
>
> Now if only we could educate more people on the value of text-only email
> clients and how to speak SMTP.
>
> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 06:48:28PM -0000, Amir Taaki wrote:
> > read this:
> >
> > http://zguide.zeromq.org/page:all#toc7
> >
> > > Thanks Amir and thanks Thomas and Nicolás and thanks to the people who
> > > said I'm wrong for being so gloomy. I don't know exactly where I want
> > > to go next but I'm feeling that we need to build tools which don't just
> > > give freedom but really *teach* freedom. Freedom is not something that
> > > can be trained, we need to learn how to build tools which encourage
> > > people to understand the systems around them, whatever they may be, to
> > > question the constraints which have been placed by physics and by other
> > > people and teach them to care.
> > >
> > > More on this after I have a chance to think it over. Probably an update
> > > to thewebmustdie.com
> > >
> > > Bitcoin and cjdns are "here's your freedom" tools, they are good but we
> > > can do better.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Caleb
> > >
> > >
> > > On 03/24/2014 06:40 PM, Amir Taaki wrote:
> > >> hey caleb, I like cjdns as a project and whatever happens I think it
> is
> > >> very cool and innovative.
> > >> You might also want to look into the ZeroMQ community. Pieter Hintjens
> > >> is a genius and it's a great project.
> > >>
> > >> The thing to remember about what we do, is that it's just not making
> > >> replacements or alternatives. It's about making tools for people.
> > >>
> > >> Why would people use your tools? Because they are better for them.
> > >>
> > >> We have to start thinking of the advantages or new things that our
> tools
> > >> bring to the table. We aren't making them for money, but for something
> > >> bigger and more fulfilling, more useful to our lives.
> > >>
> > >> We need to look to ourselves, see what we do better and play on our
> > >> strengths. And we need to stop making copycat "alternative"
> > >> replacements. Think what you can do better, more open and make tools
> > >> that *really* serve the people.
> > >>
> > >> In fact as developers for DarkWallet, we have more freedom to explore
> > >> concepts that other developers would stay away from.
> > >> We are not worried about taking investment (since our costs are low)
> so
> > >> we don't need to compromise on our vision. We are transparent about
> our
> > >> motive, and we don't need to play to any crowd for acceptance. Our
> > >> imagination is the limit. We are in the same boat with a bond stronger
> > >> than $$$, but fueled by imagination of what's possible in our world.
> > >>
> > >> And we are not shying away from the software being political. We
> openly
> > >> promote our values because we believe they're good values. And our
> users
> > >> hence know that the software is serving them.
> > >>
> > >> You know when BitcoinQt has implemented payments protocol which
> doesn't
> > >> help p2p transfers, small businesses or the black market, but helps
> > >> Bitcoin corporations like BitPay. Who is that software serving?
> > >>
> > >> On 24/03/14 16:55, Caleb James DeLisle wrote:
> > >>> I'm sorry if I've disturbed you. If this list is strictly about
> > >>> technology
> > >>> then it is probably not a place for me.
> > >>> I have some additional thoughts in response to comments here and on
> > >>> socialswarm-discuss which I wanted to share.
> > >>>
> > >>> There is a parallel thread on socialswarm-discussion@???
> > >>> if
> > >>> this thread is offensive then we can move.
> > >>>
> > >>> ----
> > >>>
> > >>> A few thoughts:
> > >>>
> > >>> I just threw 3 years of my life into cjdns and I'm now coming to the
> > >>> conclusion that it's not solving the real problem. Forgive me, I'm
> not
> > >>> in
> > >>> my best form.
> > >>>
> > >>> Wikipedia is proof that an alternative can not only exist but can
> > >>> garner
> > >>> the #1 space on every google search, all is not lost.
> > >>>
> > >>> I value art, music, and literature and some will be far better than I
> > >>> can
> > >>> ever hope to be at all of these but long ago society decided that
> > >>> nomatter
> > >>> what a great musician or artist you may be, you will be compelled to
> > >>> attend
> > >>> school and learn to read because the threat to democracy of an
> > >>> illiterate
> > >>> populous was too grave to accept. In this world with a computer on
> > >>> every
> > >>> desk and in every pocket, everybody has an obligation to have a
> certain
> > >>> level of understanding of these things.
> > >>>
> > >>> I must remember that as a child, I didn't want to learn how to read
> > >>> either
> > >>> and I distinctly recall telling my parents I would simply invent a
> > >>> machine
> > >>> to make people not need to know how to read. Forgiveness is deserved.
> > >>>
> > >>> All of the concentration on usability is, as we would say in the US,
> > >>> barking up the wrong tree. We will never be able to make open source
> > >>> projects more "usable" than facebook and their army of designers, we
> > >>> can only hope to flatten the field with eduction.
> > >>>
> > >>> The 19th and 20th century compulsory education model will never
> succeed
> > >>> here, every university CS class I've attended was teaching 5-10 year
> > >>> old
> > >>> CS *history*.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> tl;dr give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach him how to fish
> and
> > >>> he'll be fed for a lifetime, or maybe he'll just sit in a boat and
> > >>> drink
> > >>> beer :)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 03/24/2014 02:23 PM, Jacob wrote:
> > >>>> I seriously dont know what this ranting f this has to do with
> > >>>> bitcoin...
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Manfred Karrer <mk@???>
> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> "Today our world runs on silicon and bits, the written language of
> > >>>>> the day
> > >>>>> is code and in this sea of information, anyone who remains
> illiterate
> > >>>>> does
> > >>>>> so by choice. "
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Remembers me on Vilém Flussers Medienkultur, one of the
> philosophical
> > >>>>> grandfathers of the internet.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Am 24.03.2014 um 11:04 schrieb Caleb James DeLisle <cjd@???>:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> I felt that I had to express something so I wrote it and gave it a
> > >>>>> domain.
> > >>>>>> http://thewebmustdie.com/
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> tl;dr cjd is being a princess again, it happens.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Caleb
> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > >>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > >>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > >>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> > >>>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > >>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>
> --
>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Troy Benjegerdes                 'da hozer'
> hozer@???
> 7 elements      earth::water::air::fire::mind::spirit::soul
> grid.coop

>

>       Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel,
>          nor try buy a hacker who makes money by the megahash

>
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>