El 13/02/14 22:20, Manfred Karrer escribió:
>
> Am 13.02.2014 um 21:34 schrieb Enric Duran Giralt <enric@???>:
>
>> Well
>> If fiat money is in users bank account, there are some central
authorities that can shut down,
>> - Central banks
>> - Private banks.
>> - Governments…
>
> But the bank does not see that the transaction was a btc trade. It's a
bank transfer from one private person to another not marked with
anything btc realted. And you can change the bank if you do a lot of
trades and the bank makes problems. With high trades you will get
problems at least in spain as the banks deliver all the data to the tax
authority, so they will ask you for the sources of the money if it
exceeds a certian level… But that is another problem and you have the
same when you use normal exchanges and transmit 10 000 EUR wihtout
declaring from where this money comes (at least in spain).

The bank not see a transaction related to bitcoin, but see a transaction
an unknown transfer between to individuals not registered as a business,
and perhaps some of them can have ilegal activities...
this could be only functional with very few money but with more ...there
are too much possibilities for shutdown accounts!
of for problems with Taxes.

>
>
> Think of the situation in China. The government forbid banks to
operate with exchanges, so the excahnges cannot operate anymore. The
government could not forbit banks to operate with 1000s of private
clients, the banks does not even know that the tx have been btc related.
>
>>
>> Could be possible to think about substitution of banks
>> by self managed cash -> BTC centers with ATM ?
>
> That Berlin ATM project could be interesting, but dont know much
about it….
>
>>
>> People that go to ATM realize market orders, and get their BTC,
>> People that sell this BTC, realize limit orders, when sell, receive a
message about where can go to get the fiat money.
>
> Hm… I think if you don't build it in the way that the transaction is
only between 2 private person then regulatory issues come in.
> A ATM would get money from one BTC buyer and spend money to another
BTC seller. So it plays the role of a Bank, and then you get troubles
with regulation…
But these actions are not registered for the government because no banks
are part of it,
its a proposal for a completly autonomous network

I am talking about a countereconomic p2p system, not some legal one...

We dont need a p2p system to be registered inside the governments rules,
yes?

cheers

>
>
>>
>> These centers are registered only in the most friendly banks (until
we dont have created a p2p fiat courrier, and could manage fiat
>> directly between cities and countries. ;-) )
>> if its necessary can make wire transfers between each other
>>
>> Anyway this model could be
>> - at local scale (completely without banks this is our model)
>> - at the regional scale (with benefits in the banks conditions for
example SEPA)
>> - At global scale (with the problem and cost related to manage
transfer between every part of the world)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Enric
>>
>> El 13/02/14 19:51, Manfred Karrer escribió:
>>> I have written a concept for a P2P Fiat-Bitcoin Exchange.
>>> I am looking for developers so if you are interested, let me know!
>>> Otherwise any comment or review is highly appreciated!
>>>
>>>
>>> BANK RUN! - P2P Fiat-Bitcoin Exchange
>>>
>>> Basics:
>>> - Pure P2P, cannot shut down by a central authority, no 3rd party
involved.
>>> - Collateral as warranty for fair behavior
>>> - Fiat money will be transferred from one users bank account to the
others bank account without any intermediary party. No identification
that the money transaction is connected to a BCT trade.
>>> - No fees beside the standard BTC transaction fees.
>>> - Open source
>>>
>>> Here is the paper:
>>>
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d3EiWZdaM89-P6MVhS53unXv2-pDpSFsN3W4kCGXKgY
>>>
>>> High-level overview of the protocol:
>>> http://nucleo.io/bankrun/flow/bankrun.png
>>>
>>>
>>> Bitcointalk:
>>> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=462236.0
>>>
>>> Reddit:
>>>
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1xsona/bank_run_p2p_fiatbitcoin_exchange/
>>>
>>> br,
>>> Manfred
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>
>
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