I think that talk about "people" in general is always a mistake. Greeks
used the Argvmenta to try to explain this kind of fallacy. Concretly, is
called: "Argumentum ad populum".

Btw, is really curious the common idea about violences. To give weapons
to a (non-ethical) third party and finance them, to be represed by them.
Pure sado.

In Spain, some persons who fight fascism during more than 40 years said:
"armed people, respected people." (pueblo armado, pueblo respetado)

Godwin's law apart, my opinion is the same as Marshall McLuhan said.
The revolution / war has already begun. Is in our minds. It is a battle
of relentless propoganda: or controlling resources on the same mud or
seeking for alternative lifestyles.

So, for me the question to solve is not when this will happen. The
question for me is how will happen. Because on a subjetive way, is
happening.

On 01/01/14 18:37, Thomas Hartman wrote:
> I realize this is satire post, but I actually agree with the content,
> taken mostly literally.
>
> If you turn it around, don't a lot of "litlle people" have the
> potential to behave like a monster if they achieve power?
>
> People will always misbehave, and since the misbehavior is distributed
> on a normal curve the extremes will be pretty bad, whether the people
> are big or small. Hitler just had more reach.
>
> So, we shouldn't let any of this bother or scare us too much.
>
> Things aren't that different now than a thousand years ago.
>
> Fortunately most people are boringly non-extreme, so we should just
> encourage them... big and small.
>
> (But that's so boring!)
>
> On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Amir Taaki <genjix@???> wrote:
>> but dude the police are nice in my country. at least they don't need to
>> carry guns. why can't people behave? if nobody broke the laws then we
>> wouldn't need the police.
>>
>> we have experts in charge. they know best. do you want some smelly hippy
>> running your corporation? no, you want the best most-expensive
>> professional in charge. our rulers have degrees and qualifications from
>> the state. they have legitimacy. what do you know? could you run a
>> country? it's difficult work. obama's a great guy. he's just in a
>> difficult position. cut him some slack yo. he probably wants to legalise
>> marijuana and close guantanamo (in secret). it's not him who's
>> assassinating dear americans or ruining young kids lives. just because
>> they're his friends, doesn't mean he's a bad person.
>>
>> and donald rumsfeld is a good guy at heart. he had to be friends with
>> saddam eventhough he knew he was gassing his own people. it was his job
>> and we can't judge him for kissing a dictator (who was our friend). and
>> then later he wanted to spread american freedum and democracy, but
>> because the people wouldn't follow, he told some lies about saddam being
>> a monster gassing his own people. look, he's just a good guy. trust me
>> on this. they're not so bad people, just a bit misguided. even hitler
>> wasn't that bad - he liked kids and was a vegetarian. he was just a
>> little misguided (bad judgement).
>>
>> On 01/01/14 16:37, Thomas Hartman wrote:
>>> The object isn't really to control people, it's to get people to control themselves.
>>>
>>> Making stuff people will only piss people off.
>>>
>>> Telling the truth is scarier, because it invokes shame, which is internal.
>>>
>>> Cooties I tell you.
>>>
>>> We're all five years and it's a big, scary world.
>>>
>>> On Jan 1, 2014, at 7:02 AM, Luke-Jr wrote:
>>>
>>>> Meh, they have nothing to blackmail me with at least. That being said, what
>>>> stops them from making stuff up? Nothing...
>>>>
>>>> Luke
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, January 01, 2014 2:59:14 PM Thomas Hartman wrote:
>>>>> Not only is there the NSA, there is whoever is spying on the NSA.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even if the NSA dissolves, whoever that is will persist. Concretely, I
>>>>> guess that means the army of contractors / outsourcers that currently run
>>>>> a lot of the infrastructure for… well, everything, government and not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, blackmail is on the table. I think that makes people squeamish. You're
>>>>> thinking about encryption keys and hardware security, and suddenly it
>>>>> turns sexual and what could you survive being public information that
>>>>> everyone knows about you, or if you're a woman naked pictures of you
>>>>> splashed everywhere, or so on.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's what it means to be a high profile government or private person in
>>>>> 2013. The persistent knowledge that at any time, everything about your sex
>>>>> life and thoughts (google cache) could become public. If you step out of
>>>>> line, BAM.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it's interesting that as a society, as a result of ubiquitous porn
>>>>> and maybe other things, we have actually become a lot less sexually
>>>>> squeamish in the last twenty years.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the one hand, there's a lot more blackmail material out there but on the
>>>>> other hand… can this really be used to maintain control? Is the threat
>>>>> really effective?
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems to me sort of like the opposite of the nuclear threat. The more
>>>>> you use it, the less effective it gets.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course that's not the only blackmail vector, but it's a big one.
>>>>>
>>>>> So anyway, I'll say it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Part of de-clawing the NSA (and the even murkier powers that are being it)
>>>>> is continuing to evolve the global societal narrative about sex.
>>>>>
>>>>> In polite society, it's industrial espionage this and network analysis
>>>>> that, but when you strip all that away and look at it in the raw it's just
>>>>> on the level of how do the kindergarten bullies control people. Cooties,
>>>>> is how.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cooties is not an unassailable weapon.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is why I am not ultimately afraid of the NSA.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 1, 2014, at 3:24 AM, Wendell wrote:
>>>>>> I think the answer, as seemingly always, is to strive for openness and
>>>>>> decentralization in everything we do, minimizing the risk of systemic
>>>>>> failure by a kind of biomimicry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That said, if we really have to rebuild everything from the integrated
>>>>>> circuit on up, it's going to be a long, hard slog indeed. I'm afraid
>>>>>> that advanced at-home fabrication won't save us in time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -wendell
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hivewallet.com | twitter.com/hivewallet | pgp: B7179FA88C498718
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 1, 2014, at 5:28 AM, Manfred Karrer wrote:
>>>>>>> I agree with all your points. To put energy to fight NSA via
>>>>>>> governmental control is a lost fight from the start. Fight in the
>>>>>>> technological level seems unfortunately also hopeless. What else could
>>>>>>> we do?
>>>>>>
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