Yeah, and there is no real distinction between a "consumer" and a
"producer" and an "investor" anymore. While you are working you are
producing. If you have savings and investments, even in the form of bank
account or mutual funds, you are an investor. What's the deal with
"consumers"?


On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 4:06 PM, jamileh s.t. <xiaziyna@???>wrote:

> its cool that, it is a sensible thing to think that if something isn't
> useful to consumers it won't take off,
> but this is so far removed from that scenario, the whole model of a "new
> culture" of which bitcoin is a part, consumer isn't even a relevant idea
> for society to work any longer.
>
>
> On 26 November 2013 15:47, Özer Tayiz <otayiz@???> wrote:
>
>> A deflationary money, like gold, silver, or bitcoins will eventually have
>> to replace fiat currency. Because the value we give to things as humans, is
>> proportional to their scarcity. All fiat money is now being created out of
>> thin air by the trillions of dollars in a year. Throughout history, fake
>> (or fiat) money never survived. Whenever people went off the "gold
>> standard", it has been the doom of their Empire. Soon all fiat money will
>> be worthless, like Zimbabwe dollars. They have printed 100 Trillion dollar
>> bills, which was not worth the paper it was printed on. A deflationary,
>> fixed-limit money will promote saving rather than getting into debt, and
>> spend money you don't have yes. But in the long run, it is good for the
>> whole economy. Today debt-based-economy is unsustainable. People will spend
>> money for essential things (food, shelter whatever), whether Bitcoin
>> replaces fiat currency or not. And if Bitcoin replaces fiat currency, after
>> that replacement takes place, there won't that high spikes in price, it
>> will be relatively stable.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Enric Duran Giralt <
>> enric@???> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> A main rule of money, is that less valuable money will be spent before
>>> the most valuable money.
>>> (for this reason ever in the history people hasn't spent gold to pay
>>> something, mainly holding)
>>>
>>> So the configuración of bitcoin, for his nature deflationary, and
>>> consequent growing value.
>>> its for to be a more valuable money than cash or online fiat money. For
>>> this a general trend its to hold bitcoin, more than spend it.
>>>
>>> Who will spend bitcoin?
>>> - People that already don't have fiat. This people is all in
>>> cryptocurrencies but spent some of then when its needed.
>>>
>>> - People that need some of the technological improvement that bitcoin
>>> offers. For example to make international transfers
>>> instantly and without a big comission and to wait some days..
>>>
>>> - Bitcoin supporters. Some people can spend bitcoin before to spent fiat
>>> for emotional reasons like to practice in the everyday life what they think.
>>>
>>> - People that wants to be out of the system. Blackmarkets, no paying tax
>>> and so on... For this kind of people anonimity and privacity is the real
>>> big think and dark wallet a key element.
>>>
>>> So, with all of this, yes bitcoin have some value for the consumers.
>>> But, no, bitcoin as a deflationary currency its not created to replace
>>> spent of fiat.
>>> Anyway with most of the tech features of bitcoin its possible to create
>>> a no deflationary currency (better if also is not inflacionary), that could
>>> compete
>>> with fiat in the major daily consumer things. specially mining method
>>> should be different, or perhaps could be possible to merge mining with
>>> deflacionaries cryptos?
>>> perhaps devcoin and freicoin have some of this features, but not all,
>>> and not the best design.
>>> Other problem is that is that if a non deflationary cryptocurrency is
>>> created who will have motivation to buy it, being less valuable than
>>> deflationary cryptos?
>>> Perhaps this non deflationary crypto could be something not traded in
>>> the common bases, but donated for spending in varios circumstances. One
>>> thing to think about...
>>>
>>> Otherwise with the big use that have bitcoin for savers, i have a
>>> proposal that comes in the next message
>>>
>>> regards
>>> enric
>>>
>>>
>>> El 25/11/13 20:33, Özer Tayiz escribió:
>>>
>>> With all the rise in value, SAVERS have a lot of use for bitcoins, if not
>>> consumers. :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Amir Taaki <genjix@???> <genjix@???> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=344378
>>>
>>> "Consumers have absolutely no motivation to use Bitcoin. And because of
>>> that, I don't understand how it will ever go global."
>>>
>>> I cannot stress this enough: we are not making Bitcoin for consumers.
>>> That's not where this cryptocurrency does best (improving on credit
>>> cards). It's a new tool of trade and we have to make use of this in how
>>> we work.
>>>
>>> Just like the internet is not an improved television, Bitcoin is not an
>>> improved dollar.
>>>
>>>
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