I had not followed this thread but the new subject line is just too
beautiful to ignore. I am a huge believer in cooperation, to the point
that I actually think anonymity is detrimental in the long term because
it promotes individualism which damages the layer of trust needed to
build a society, let alone the one we want to live in.

Off topic: I've been going over in my mind different approaches to
building communities which take advantage of anonymity to be hardened
from outside attacks but still have trust within the community.

I think the development of the ColorCoin technology will prove very
important in the future. Money in motion creates incentives. You pay
for something because you care about it and that creates incentive to
the other party in the exchange. What is not often recognized is that
money at rest represents trust. When you put your money in the bank, you
are trusting the government and banking system.

Currently there are few other options than trusting the banking system.
Unless they are willing to sign piles of documents and pay exorbitant
fees to a broker, they are completely locked out of the traditional
investment system and forced to place all of their trust in the banks.

Bankers, particularly community bankers, are not evil people but they
are forced to lend the money to those most likely to return it. If
WalMart can make a better case that they are capable of repaying their
loans then can Jean's Coffee Shop, WalMart will get the money, even
though it is *our* money and we don't want WalMart in our community!

Bitcoin provides a sort of refuge from this foul system, an escape
from trust and a separation from society. While it is indeed a great
leap forward, it is also in many ways a leap back to the late 19th
century USA when gold and silver ruled the roost. I believe a society
built around bitcoin as it is today would return to the same default
state as was seen in the US turn of the century. That is to say, a
world ruled by bitcoin would still have robber barons and still have
boom/bust cycles. Perhaps most concerning is the fact that this
combination could lead again to central banking as it did for the US
in 1913.

I would like to see an app for my iThing where I can decide what
businesses are worthy to hold my spending money. 15% in Jean's Coffee,
25% in The People's Pint, 20% in Vally Steal Stamp and so on. When
they do well and their share price increases, my wallet will gain
value, when they have a hard time and need to issue stock, I will
accept a loss of value, I will accept it because these will be
businesses which I *believe* in.

If we can teach people accept a loss in hard times, the brittleness
and tendency toward boom/bust cycles of the financial system as we
know it will fade. If we can teach people that where their money sits
is as important as which businesses they patronize, robber barons will
be punished by the community through withdrawel of support. Finally,
if we can teach the people that money at rest is the most powerful
form of political speech, the people will never again accept banking
as we know it today.


Thanks,
Caleb










On 11/02/2013 10:29 PM, Amir Taaki wrote:
> There's a big global empire which harvests a huge amount of human resource and is able to scale it's global subjugation to billions of humans.
>
> Collaboration between humans is underpinned by legal contracts. The legal system is an apparatus encompassing political, commercial and social spheres. Your social contract is an involuntary enforced requirement by the state. By building our own structures outside the system we can outcompete them at their own game obseleting the states. Services which are objectively better and provide for the people.
>
> Free communities with decentralised decision making works well on smaller scales when the people know one another. But then we scale from 100 people to 1000 people, the trust drops and then agreements need to be formed through something else. The has been a big hurdle in the scaling of autonomous decentralised communities.
>
> Bitcoin allows us to create mathematical contracts. Connect all the communities into a global network each trading with one another.
>
> Bitcoin allows the creation of new unseen forms of cooperative business. For instance unSYSTEM could have 1 cooperative fund which is managed by a form of consensus. Individual projects could make their own cooperative funds and request money from the community. Projects could be funded through milestones with tradable shares (unlike untransferable crowdfunding perks). This could be used to fund the creation of public services, and there are other contractual tools. Communication is very
> important too but I think we have a solid vision for that.
>
> On 02/11/13 19:53, Benjamin Cordes wrote:
>> "I prefer to keep Bitcoin pure, simple and focused. Value transfer from A ? B. "
>
>> Almost all meaningful economic transactions involve third parties. Governments and courts evolved for precisely this reason. Contracts are enforced by the law (and thereby the power of the state, as Mike pointed out). The question very much remains how Bitcoin improves at all on economic transactions. I think there is a lot of confusion about this, to put it mildly. Much of what is written is not very well intellectually grounded. Courts, democracies, governments evolved over roughly 1000
>> years.
>
>> Mastercoin and BIP70 are good examples of how the Bitcoin community really fails to acknowledge some basic fundamental principles of how economic transactions and contracts work. Which is why we haven't really seen any major new use case, besides those which involve activities which bypass laws (donating to political organizations which Visa & Mastercard don't like). Bitcoin is very far away from changing any of this, especially if does not add any layers which make it useful. However,
>> once such layers would exist the potential is almost unbounded.
>
>
>> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 2:38 PM, jamileh s.t. <xiaziyna@??? <mailto:xiaziyna@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>
>> a single signal, far too old to hear uncountable and yet more mutable than mere breathing and vanishing, too minimal for death. singular and yet a unity a multitude of the single celled
>
>
>> On 31 October 2013 11:48, Amir Taaki <genjix@??? <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>> wrote:
>
>> very busy, hard to keep up with email. both your explanations are correct. imagine a poker table. if everyone's collaborating, then the game is rigged. same with tor. you need at least 1 hop to be honest for it to work. with mixing you need at least 1 other to be honest. this is the basis for byzantine fault tolerance working (see the paper about NFS).
>
>> On 31/10/13 12:45, Tristan Winters wrote:
>>> Yeah, I am hoping to do the same thing with our Australian Foundation. We may be far away, but we?ve got a kick-arse team.
>
>>> The more projects like this the better.
>
>>> I am pretty certain that Coin Punk funding is coming straight from the foundation. Bitcoin magazine ran an article about Coin Punk getting a grant from them.
>
>>> Anyway, did you get my email about the trustless mixer ??? I?m
>> in a
>>> debate with a guy about it and I?d appreciate your feedback.
>
>>> Cheers,
>
>>> TW.
>
>>> On 31 Oct 2013, at 12:37 pm, Amir Taaki <genjix@???
>> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>
>>> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>>> wrote:
>
>>> his email: Kyle Drake <kyledrake@???
>> <mailto:kyledrake@gmail.com>
>>> <mailto:kyledrake@gmail.com <mailto:kyledrake@gmail.com>>>
>
>>> I think we can provide people a credible alternative to help good projects we want to see thrive.
>
>>> On 31/10/13 12:34, Tristan Winters wrote:
>>>>>> Cool Video.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But isn?t the "Coin Punk? wallet financed by the US Foundation?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TW.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 31 Oct 2013, at 9:05 am, Cody R Wilson <codywilson@??? <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>
>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>>
>>>>>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu
>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Trick or Treat, Western Civilization:
>>>>>>>
>> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bitcoin-dark-wallet/x/5141070
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> Render your contempt visible, your resistance invisible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /While hitherto all valuations and ideals have been built on ignorance of Bitcoin or in contradiction to it- therefore long live Bitcoin!/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 1:17 AM, jindq1 <jindq1@???
>> <mailto:jindq1@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> <mailto:jindq1@gmail.com <mailto:jindq1@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Email is inefficient for much more than general updates. That's the gist of it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 3:59 AM, Amir Taaki <genjix@??? <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>
>> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> but we are all here now with a collective voice, creating projects, making a name and creative a voice for everyone. what is openbitco.in <http://openbitco.in>
>> <http://openbitco.in/> offering better?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 31/10/13 04:50, jindq1 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While I may not always feel like the people on this list
>>>>>> match my
>>>>>>> own personal opinions on economics, politics and technology, I'm here because I crave difference (it's how you learn about
>>>>>> yourself
>>>>>>> and the world afterall). That's why even if I hear a million
>>>>>> things
>>>>>>> I don't agree with, I won't ignore it, I'll either argue
>>>>>> with it or
>>>>>>> accept it. This has prompted me to take my own interests in learning, being productive and useful, and my disgust for corruption and hypocrisy and propose a new decentralized organization that puts the voice of people back into their own hands, and not a highly moderated forum or rich dude's.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Original openbitco.in <http://openbitco.in>
>> <http://openbitco.in/>
>>>>>> <http://openbitco.in <http://openbitco.in/>> proposal:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E-hLRcG0pejC4h02BCN_fdXJH3j9AAHziYZHivcmDbU/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>
>
> * Current development site: http://openbitco.in
>>>>>> <http://openbitco.in/>
>>>>>>> * Other site features under construction and consideration:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ajtx05YrHtIydGZFNzBZVTEtaldZXzNjUXRCZFc1RHc#gid=0
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>
>
> * Decentralized openbitco.in <http://openbitco.in>
>> <http://openbitco.in/>
>>>>>> <http://openbitco.in <http://openbitco.in/>> forum proposal:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E-hLRcG0pejC4h02BCN_fdXJH3j9AAHziYZHivcmDbU/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>
>
> * For more information or if you'd like to participate with the
>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> 30 members involved at the moment, PM me for the skype chatroom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd love your guys' opinion on it, even if it's "that will never work", because it would only be more fun for me when it does. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hope everyone had fun at the Amsterdam conference we did last month, we're working on the next 2 and I can't wait to start the marketplaces up as OpenBitco.in!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Matthew
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>>>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing
>>>>>>> list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>>>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing
>>>>>>> list: http://unsystem.net <http://unsystem.net/>
>>>>>>>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> -- Sincerely,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cody R. Wilson codywilson@???
>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>
>>>>>>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The University of Texas School of Law Class of 2014
>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing
>>>>>> list: http://unsystem.net https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>
>
>>>>
>
>
>>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>
>
>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>
>
>
>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>
>
>
>
>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>
>
> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>