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Skribent: Mike Gogulski
Dato:  
Til: System undo crew
Emne: Re: [unSYSTEM] Ross Ulbricht’s parents say zero chance of murder-for-hire
You're reading my mind.

My guess is that he's going to be denied bail, or that it will be
financially out of reach for friends and family. It's going to be a
while before we find out what really went on.

On 10/04/2013 05:54 PM, Caleb James DeLisle wrote:
> Lets play a little 'what if' game. I know next to nothing about silkroad so
> I'm probably going to get something wrong but bare with me.
>
> What if Ross is as innocent as he could be while still being the operator
> of silkroad. Just a sort of craigslist with escrow. Now what if the FBI got
> a message from an anonymous TOR person that said "Hi, I'm Ross Ulbricht, I run
> silkroad and I would like you to murder someone". In court this is not going
> to stand up for one moment but they entered the information in their criminal
> complaint so he is already convicted of murder in the minds of many.
>
> Maybe the FBI agents heard this and they "saw what they wanted to see" in it,
> maybe they intentionally added this to the complaint to foil attempts at raising
> money in his defense, we don't know.
>
> What if they ammend their complain removing any word of murder for hire and
> direct drug dealing and charge him only for his role in operating SR? What if
> they encounter very little legal defense because those who might have donated
> have already written him off as a murderer?
>
>
> All I have to say is please lets not rush to judgement, if he is guilty of
> murder then he will probably be found guilty, hopefully to be humainly confined
> as is the norm among civil societies. If he was only a peaceful operator of a
> forum, another Aaron Swartz, a person who only broke the law to change things,
> then his sentencing should reflect not just his actions but his *intent*,
> something which is unlikely if he cannot mount an effective defense.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Caleb
>
>
> On 10/04/2013 11:19 AM, Robert Williamson wrote:
>> I bet last week they would also have said zero chance of being an online drug lord.
>>
>> Sure the FBI entrapped him. But are his parents saying that entrapment never happened and the chat/ message logs are faked?
>>
>> On 4 Oct 2013 16:12, "Mike Gogulski" <mike@??? <mailto:mike@gogulski.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     I spoke with his parents for two hours:

>>
>>     https://www.rossulbricht.org/ross-ulbrichts-parents-say-zero-chance-of-murder-for-hire/

>>
>>     On 10/04/2013 12:41 PM, Juraj Bednar wrote:
>>     > Hi,
>>     >
>>     >> The Maryland document clearly states it was an undercover FBI agent.

>>     >>
>>     > Yet it clearly says that the undercover agent arranged the delivery, but
>>     > the first person to suggest
>>     > torture and then execution was DPR. I still want to believe that that's
>>     > not the whole story, on the
>>     > other hand, it's a great PR move for influencing the jury.

>>     >
>>     > >From the state point of view, the FBI did their job and after they've
>>     > done it, DPR suggested violence.
>>     > (of course we view the acts of the FBI as violence, but that's not what
>>     > the general public believes
>>     > and it serves their narrative pretty well :(.

>>     >
>>     >> In most countries in the world, entrapment is thrown out of court. You
>>     >> cannot prosecute someone for a crime which the police entrap you into.
>>     > Yet there is nothing to suggest so. In Maryland document, there was even
>>     > no indication of threats
>>     > from the "victim" about releasing documents. DPR was pissed that they
>>     > stole some money and that
>>     > they could "sing".

>>     >
>>     > Sort-of prisoner's dilemma, but clearly no direct reaction to any
>>     > particular threat.
>>     >> They aren't basing their case on attempted murder. So what was the
>>     >> purpose of engineering this situation with DPR?
>>     > Influence of jury decision and public opinion of course.
>>     >> Go and research what DPR is like as a person. Watch his interview
>>     >> online where he is talking about true love and his hopes for the
>>     >> future of the world. Read some his writings.
>>     > His writings are writings of an idealist. We all read it and believed
>>     > that it says what we
>>     > think. There is always a difference between what someone writes and what
>>     > he or she
>>     > does. This is not to blame or to praise Ross as a person. DPR was and is
>>     > an act.
>>     > It may root from his beliefs, but he will be judged as a person based on
>>     > his actions,
>>     > not based on his beliefs.

>>     >
>>     > We can discuss if the trial is unbiased and serves justice and not only
>>     > the state. It will
>>     > almost certainly be biased on the state side, because the state sees
>>     > drug trade as
>>     > something bad and some people including me, most of the vendors and
>>     > customers
>>     > and himself see it otherwise.

>>     >
>>     > Ross was a real person and they are basing their
>>     > case on real person and his mistakes. They are winning the public
>>     > opinion part pretty
>>     > well. :(
>>     >> Interview with DPR (left): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33fxHA-FEYg

>>     >>
>>     > This is an interview with Ross and I believe these are different
>>     > entities. We may discuss
>>     > if DPR or Ross was an act, but one of them was.
>>     >> By judging DPR, you are buying the picture that has been painted for
>>     >> you to slant the public discourse. Remove yourself from that game.
>>     >> This moral dilemma is false.
>>     > The dilemma is not false.

>>     >
>>     > But I agree we cannot judge DPR because we have no unbiased information
>>     > regarding the
>>     > case and we don't have any moral authority to judge him.

>>     >
>>     > Where are the victims? Let them speak or show that they are missing.
>>     > Otherwise, it's a witch-hunt.

>>     >

>>     >
>>     >    J.

>>     >

>>     >
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>>
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