:: Re: [unSYSTEM] Ross Ulbricht’s pare…
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Auteur: Mark Lamb
Date:  
À: System undo crew
Sujet: Re: [unSYSTEM] Ross Ulbricht’s parents say zero chance of murder-for-hire
Financially it shouldn't be out of reach for him if he can remember 12 very
important words.


On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 5:00 PM, Mike Gogulski <mike@???> wrote:

> You're reading my mind.
>
> My guess is that he's going to be denied bail, or that it will be
> financially out of reach for friends and family. It's going to be a
> while before we find out what really went on.
>
> On 10/04/2013 05:54 PM, Caleb James DeLisle wrote:
> > Lets play a little 'what if' game. I know next to nothing about silkroad
> so
> > I'm probably going to get something wrong but bare with me.
> >
> > What if Ross is as innocent as he could be while still being the operator
> > of silkroad. Just a sort of craigslist with escrow. Now what if the FBI
> got
> > a message from an anonymous TOR person that said "Hi, I'm Ross Ulbricht,
> I run
> > silkroad and I would like you to murder someone". In court this is not
> going
> > to stand up for one moment but they entered the information in their
> criminal
> > complaint so he is already convicted of murder in the minds of many.
> >
> > Maybe the FBI agents heard this and they "saw what they wanted to see"
> in it,
> > maybe they intentionally added this to the complaint to foil attempts at
> raising
> > money in his defense, we don't know.
> >
> > What if they ammend their complain removing any word of murder for hire
> and
> > direct drug dealing and charge him only for his role in operating SR?
> What if
> > they encounter very little legal defense because those who might have
> donated
> > have already written him off as a murderer?
> >
> >
> > All I have to say is please lets not rush to judgement, if he is guilty
> of
> > murder then he will probably be found guilty, hopefully to be humainly
> confined
> > as is the norm among civil societies. If he was only a peaceful operator
> of a
> > forum, another Aaron Swartz, a person who only broke the law to change
> things,
> > then his sentencing should reflect not just his actions but his *intent*,
> > something which is unlikely if he cannot mount an effective defense.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Caleb
> >
> >
> > On 10/04/2013 11:19 AM, Robert Williamson wrote:
> >> I bet last week they would also have said zero chance of being an
> online drug lord.
> >>
> >> Sure the FBI entrapped him. But are his parents saying that entrapment
> never happened and the chat/ message logs are faked?
> >>
> >> On 4 Oct 2013 16:12, "Mike Gogulski" <mike@??? <mailto:
> mike@???>> wrote:
> >>
> >>     I spoke with his parents for two hours:

> >>
> >>
> https://www.rossulbricht.org/ross-ulbrichts-parents-say-zero-chance-of-murder-for-hire/
> >>
> >>     On 10/04/2013 12:41 PM, Juraj Bednar wrote:
> >>     > Hi,
> >>     >
> >>     >> The Maryland document clearly states it was an undercover FBI
> agent.

> >>     >>
> >>     > Yet it clearly says that the undercover agent arranged the
> delivery, but
> >>     > the first person to suggest
> >>     > torture and then execution was DPR. I still want to believe that
> that's
> >>     > not the whole story, on the
> >>     > other hand, it's a great PR move for influencing the jury.

> >>     >
> >>     > >From the state point of view, the FBI did their job and after
> they've
> >>     > done it, DPR suggested violence.
> >>     > (of course we view the acts of the FBI as violence, but that's
> not what
> >>     > the general public believes
> >>     > and it serves their narrative pretty well :(.

> >>     >
> >>     >> In most countries in the world, entrapment is thrown out of
> court. You
> >>     >> cannot prosecute someone for a crime which the police entrap you
> into.
> >>     > Yet there is nothing to suggest so. In Maryland document, there
> was even
> >>     > no indication of threats
> >>     > from the "victim" about releasing documents. DPR was pissed that
> they
> >>     > stole some money and that
> >>     > they could "sing".

> >>     >
> >>     > Sort-of prisoner's dilemma, but clearly no direct reaction to any
> >>     > particular threat.
> >>     >> They aren't basing their case on attempted murder. So what was
> the
> >>     >> purpose of engineering this situation with DPR?
> >>     > Influence of jury decision and public opinion of course.
> >>     >> Go and research what DPR is like as a person. Watch his interview
> >>     >> online where he is talking about true love and his hopes for the
> >>     >> future of the world. Read some his writings.
> >>     > His writings are writings of an idealist. We all read it and
> believed
> >>     > that it says what we
> >>     > think. There is always a difference between what someone writes
> and what
> >>     > he or she
> >>     > does. This is not to blame or to praise Ross as a person. DPR was
> and is
> >>     > an act.
> >>     > It may root from his beliefs, but he will be judged as a person
> based on
> >>     > his actions,
> >>     > not based on his beliefs.

> >>     >
> >>     > We can discuss if the trial is unbiased and serves justice and
> not only
> >>     > the state. It will
> >>     > almost certainly be biased on the state side, because the state
> sees
> >>     > drug trade as
> >>     > something bad and some people including me, most of the vendors
> and
> >>     > customers
> >>     > and himself see it otherwise.

> >>     >
> >>     > Ross was a real person and they are basing their
> >>     > case on real person and his mistakes. They are winning the public
> >>     > opinion part pretty
> >>     > well. :(
> >>     >> Interview with DPR (left):
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33fxHA-FEYg

> >>     >>
> >>     > This is an interview with Ross and I believe these are different
> >>     > entities. We may discuss
> >>     > if DPR or Ross was an act, but one of them was.
> >>     >> By judging DPR, you are buying the picture that has been painted
> for
> >>     >> you to slant the public discourse. Remove yourself from that
> game.
> >>     >> This moral dilemma is false.
> >>     > The dilemma is not false.

> >>     >
> >>     > But I agree we cannot judge DPR because we have no unbiased
> information
> >>     > regarding the
> >>     > case and we don't have any moral authority to judge him.

> >>     >
> >>     > Where are the victims? Let them speak or show that they are
> missing.
> >>     > Otherwise, it's a witch-hunt.

> >>     >

> >>     >
> >>     >    J.

> >>     >

> >>     >
> >>     > _______________________________________________
> >>     > unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> >>     > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem

> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
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