The fat man thing is these hypotheticals that detach you from reality
and real issues.

Why don't you talk about Bitcoin devs who work for Google and
cooperate with Dutch law enforcement against Silk Road users. Or what
about Bitcoin devs lecturing to the CIA, defending Bitcoin being
coopted by states and joining a task force to combat child porn.

http://postimg.org/image/4vi6rx3vx/

Do you realise Bitcoin is enormous and is going to change our world?
It's a tool for humanity at a basic level like the internet. We musn't
let it become corrupted.

I remember one guy talking to me about privacy, freedom and blaa blaa
blaa talk talk. What does he do? He works for VISA monitoring people's
accounts and freezing accounts for AML. How does he justify it? "I
need to pay my rent." Where does he live? Central London.

These are the real motherfuckers. Not DPR.

On 04/10/13 00:02, Amir Taaki wrote:
> No the fat man discussion is bullshit and not worth discussing.
>
> On 04/10/13 00:01, jindq1 wrote:
>> Cody,
>
>> The only thing *we* need to do is wait for evidence and a court
>> hearing. Anything else is pointless imo. The cultism comes out
>> when people jump the gun to claim the defendant is *not guilty*
>> just because he's part of their camp or because they don't like
>> the prosecutor (in this case, FBI). If you're offended by being
>> called a cultist, it might help to not talk like one on the
>> internet. Besides, to be frank, no one is talking about "right"
>> or "wrong" in the first place except Amir and you perhaps. We're
>> all curious of "guilty", or "not guilty", and last I checked, no
>> one on this mailing list knows anything more than the FBI has
>> released at this point. Please do update us with *facts* though,
>> it's something that is interesting to follow. Thanks for the link
>> too Amir, I definitely would not push the fat man to save the 5.
>> I did not put the train out on its course, it is not my
>> *responsibility* to save them, but as I would want to, I would
>> likely try. I would most likely throw myself though. How about
>> you? Only throw the fat man if he's wearing an FBI shirt? :)
>
>
>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Cody R Wilson
>> <codywilson@??? <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>> wrote:
>
>> I don't subscribe to the FBI theory, btw. But this "right" and
>> "wrong" binary is slavish and unserious liberal talk. Though I
>> know what you mean, the cultish slur is also offensive.
>
>> Modern ethics is both apologism for and obfuscation of the
>> received power relations in society. What's cultish is our
>> inbred, underdeveloped concept of evil. I don't know the facts
>> other than what I saw in the criminal complaint, and I do not
>> mean to justify the unjustifiable, but we must not uncritically
>> accept the larger pre-existing factors at play. Among these is
>> the operation of the largest multinational terrorist program in
>> history- USG.
>
>
>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 4:45 PM, jindq1 <jindq1@???
>> <mailto:jindq1@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> Question to Cody: Do you think if he did it, that it was right
>> to do it? Would you have done the same thing? (Forget the FBI,
>> that's not the discussion, the discussion is murder/attempted
>> murder for the reasons outlined).
>
>
>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 10:40 PM, Cody R Wilson
>> <codywilson@??? <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>> wrote:
>
>> I'm not surprised by the appeal to the norm of sanity. Before we
>> are tempted much more to despair by the prevailing ethical
>> ideology, I recommend this work by Mr. Badiou:
>> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CDkQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aeogea.com%2Fpdf_library%2Fbooks%2F713303226_badiou-ethics-an-essay-on-the-understanding-of-evil.pdf&ei=t-FNUp7cE4Gm9ATN_oCIBw&usg=AFQjCNG6DTNkWvMPYraqMnvamrdis746Ag&bvm=bv.53537100,d.eWU
>
>> On Oct 3, 2013 4:27 PM, "Cody R Wilson" <codywilson@???
>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>> wrote:
>
>> Isn't a situational ethics required here? There is the
>> pre-existing evil of the organized violence of the state. A fixed
>> moral imperative is here a tool that serves the master. Just like
>> how 'Human Rights' is the motto du jour for organized bombing.
>> Self-preservation almost demanded he act as he did, assuming he
>> did.
>
>> How is that a monstrous conclusion?
>
>> Couldn't agree more Amir: we need to promote the values of
>> respect for other people's lives. Where the FBI will seek to take
>> his away for his mistakes, we cannot support his promotion just
>> because he "stood for something good". He made the mistakes that
>> proved his *lack* of values (assuming all evidence is accurate).
>> The FBI, although a rotten snotball of power abusers, they didn't
>> need to work on this one-- he handed it to them like a child
>> molesting Catholic priest handing an anti-religion argument to an
>> Athiest. We should all bow our heads in shame that we did not
>> seek to out him sooner, befriend him, and be there for him when
>> he was thinking murder was a solution. Additionally, we should
>> seek to find more evidence, follow the trials, and continue to
>> discuss-- but blindly follow a murderer because we don't like the
>> FBI? Rationality unfortunately doesn't work like that. Let's pick
>> our battles, shall we?
>
>> Matthew
>
>
>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 10:14 PM, Amir Taaki <genjix@???
>> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>> wrote:
>
>> Utopian paradises are a fantasy. But right now I know who the
>> biggest murderer and threat to human freedom / expression on the
>> earth is. And it's not a small time mafia that was a threat to
>> the big time mafias.
>
>> These what if questions divert from focusing on what you're
>> struggling for. They're imaginary scenarios until they're
>> actually possible.
>
>> Also we need to move beyond promoting ideologies, and into
>> promoting values.
>
>> On 03/10/13 23:07, jindq1 wrote:
>>> I am very skeptical of initiatives to keep things
>> "anonymous", and
>>> given that bitcoin empowers people like never
>> before to anonymous
>>> order hits on each other, it does beg to question:
>> Who the fuck
>>> would want to live in a society where absolutely
>> anyone with some
>>> money could kill anyone else, and anonymously, all
>> without leaving
>>> their home PC? In a libertarian paradise, this guy
>> would not only
>>> have killed someone, we never would have known
>> about it. (Yes, I
>>> understand it was a trap by the FBI).
>
>
>>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Amir Taaki
>> <genjix@??? <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>
>>> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net
>> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>>> wrote:
>
>>> Apologists, know who your true oppressor is.
>
>>> We don't need to moralise that murder to protect
>> thousands is OK,
>>> or that murder is wrong (like in superhero movies).
>
>>> The FBI entrapped him. By falling into this trap
>> of condemning
>>> DPR, you are operating in the frame set by the
>> FBI. You are
>>> allowing them to steer the argument.
>
>>> I stand with Ross Ulbricht.
>
>
>> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1nn6h8/dprs_accusations_of_murder_for_hire_only_reveal/
>
>>
>
>>> On 03/10/13 22:15, jadair wrote:
>>>> I agree this thread is inappropriate for Lifeboat
>> and for the
>>>> objectives of this group.
>
>>>> On Thursday, October 3, 2013 2:55:20 PM UTC-4,
>> mike wrote:
>
>>>> Operated, for now, by me:
>
>
>
>> https://www.rossulbricht.org/introducing-the-ross-ulbricht-legal-defense-fund/
>
>>
>
>
>
>
>> <https://www.rossulbricht.org/introducing-the-ross-ulbricht-legal-defense-fund/>
>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>> -- Sincerely,
>
>> Cody R. Wilson codywilson@???
>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>
>
>> The University of Texas School of Law Class of 2014
>
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