Hi,

Yes I can see how some users might have some use for one of the specialist
software applications. But Blender doesn't make PureDyne special at all: you
can have it for any distro. If you can use Blender, compiling it from source
is hardly going to be an intellectual challenge!

Anyway, it's interesting that you don't use Blender AND PureData. I'm
waiting for that super-talented PureDyne user, that claims to use them both,
plus uses Blender's scripting ability with Python! :)             (And then
of course I'll ask to see their work for evidence..) Sorry, but if you check
with the Blender forums you'll find out that making a couple of 3d models
after a couple of hours use of Blender just makes you a n00b. But it will
make you look cooler in front of friends, than learning something like C
programming which may be a lot more useful in the long run.

No, I think Blender's usefulness gets talked up a lot everywhere among open
source astroturfers, but I see very little evidence of any widespread
productivity with this. Compare it with Windows users of Poser. There are
millions of them and there is actually a very valuable market for Poser
modules. There is no comparison at all, between Windows or Mac software for
3D, and this Blender. The Nordic guys who wrote Blender are famous for
trying to make their app NOT user friendly - makes them see more talented
because that's their background (demoscene). I have no interest in massaging
their ego by learning their software, and can't understand anyone who does.

So yes, you say you can use Blender and I respect you may have at some point
worked through a few chapters of one of the many manuals for one of the many
versions. But this doesn't make you look cool to me, that you chose to use
this software or any other software. The finished work is judged, not your
choice of software. Do you see what I'm getting at with this? This software
you say is "heavy" because you found it difficult to learn. So there is no
basis for advocacy of its use unless you enjoy proving your leetness to 12
year olds on internet forums. I mean seriously, to an artist doing 3D
modelling with plasticene is a better demonstrating of talent and your
leetness among other artists than going around saying you learnt how to use
plasticene (which of course a 2 or 3 year old can also boast about).

So yes, it appears we agree that Blender is a bit "heavy". Is there anyone
who found it easy to learn and use? Otherwise we might as well agree that
POV-Ray is a killer app fit for all purposes, and let's all pretend to be
1337 to be able to use that to make stunning 3D visuals to a killer music
background generated by a custom-made PureData modular environment. Nobody
will care what you used to make it with.. only whether the finished work
demonstrates artistic or musical talent. Because out of millions who try
modelling plasticene, one of them might be Michelangelo, and statistically
that it less likely to be the case, with the much smaller userbase of
Blender than plasticene. I mean, sorry guys, I went to school and uni and
got my certificates, and now what matters to me is not more credo but the
quality of finished works (will they survive as art into the future - will
they give me my immortality?). To that end, the idea of Dynebolic was to
empower people without access to the latest tech a microphone and a
soap-box.

In 10, 15 years the 3D stuff will look amazing compared to what you can do
with Blender and POV-Ray right now, because technology will improve. But
that's not the point to Dyne, is it? Isn't the point about giving people
accessibility to self-expression?

As for the PureData, the technology for music production no matter how far
it advances will not help anyone who doesn't have talent. This is why I keep
saying you should consult at KVR audio - the musicians really need an
unobtrusive, easy-to-use very powerful all-in-one DAW. The music has its own
formal theory, and has been handed down from ancient civilisations and
before. It will not get any better by putting more barriers in the way of
inspiration (which comes very fast and which can't be held in the mind and
processed with rational abstract thought such as required to model an OOP
program just to capture what's in the wind). It just doesn't work like that.


Regards,

Maxam

On 3/24/07, MilkaJinka <milka@???> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> > The other big waste of space for most users but not all, is Blender for
> > 3d.
> > 3D experts can use Blender, but this is only after a lot of study.
> Nobody
> > else has any use for it and it seems to be thrown in anyway, with the
> > attitude that if you can't use it you must be a dumbass/luser
> (interesting
> > to know who could use PureData AND Blender). PureData and Blender were
> > both
> > developed by people with specific needs, and have evolved over time.
> Those
> > people who were with it at the beginning obviously find it a piece of
> cake
> > to use them. Others are lusers or people looking for a Linux-based
> > challenge
> > (for whom the actual multimedia work itself is not a top priority).
>
> I have to disagree. Blender _is_ useful because one can do about
> everything with it in the 3D area (modelling, animation, editing,
> compositing...), and you can get started in a couple of hour for the
> basics (I knew it, I and a dozen of friends have done it ;-) ). The
> all-in-one killer app (not an elitist tool for specific needs), but yeah,
> you're right, it's _heavy_, especially for a distro aimed at being able to
> run on old computers.
>
> The same can be said about Cinelerra : it's heavy, ressources-angry and
> not too easy to learn, but hey, it's THE tool for video editing under
> Linux.
>
> Well, using POV-Ray it's possible to make 3D modelling with text-files
> only and a very weak system, but THAT is as elitist as PureData :-D
>
> Cheers,
> MilkaJinka
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