> To me, it feels like having an excellent idea and no capability to
> make it, it's just not sufficient. Same for the other way around.
> It's definitely some place i'd love to see more academic and
> practical research... Open Organizations could be a way maybe?
At the moment OO as an outfit is a bit dead, and so was the site when I
looked up last time. Reason is that there were very few people in it in
the first place (3+3 - and that counts me!) so at some stage the thing
runs out of steam and the participants do something else (Egypt, PhD etc)
Of course the idea itself is far from dead, and far from unique (see also
the 'Hierarchnie' group in .de). So yes, we should surely make it part of
our toolbox.
>
>
> Do you have pointers / URL to tech infos about this?
China and RFID:
http://www.idtechex.com/products/en/view.asp?productcategoryid=138
(but doesn't that come from Rob/this list)
>
>> One of the things I have been doing in past years is setting up a
>> space
>> in which both GS1 Holland, EPC Global and RFID pushers are in with the
>> teachers from the students of Nijmegen who hacked/cloned the Ov card,
>> designers, and government sponsored bodies who care about privacy. It
>> may lead to opening up the infrastructure alongside the principles of
>> Melanie Riebacks RFID Guardian (also in that DIFR network),
>> http://www.rfidguardian.org/index.php/Main_Page
>> it may not.
> I have mixed feelings here, because it can also help the industry
> "secure" the new emerging experts into shared-interests that they
> perfectly know how to create...
> OTOH, we have to assume good will to be positive.
Me too.
> Maybe the interesting, balanced position is the one that assume good
> wills but is vigilant as to see if the industry is not "buying out"
> the whistle-blowers or other dirty techniques.
Problem here is definitely the automatic, default-mode 'mala fides' of
anybody involved in an established institution - so the bad thing will
happen.
>
> The /tmp/lab like many hacker labs is something like this, maybe we
> should now start inviting french and european politics to exchange
> there.
Harbour no illusions. The politicians you'd be most likely to attract
belong to the 'already converted' category (typically on the green/leftist
side) - but they will only betray you when the chips are down.
> Indeed, it seems to me that transdisciplinary forums are lacking.
> When they are created, did someone else spot that they are aging very
> badly? (i.e. like people who do not contribute interesting ideas but
> trolls and also lots of "informed people with actually no creations /
> substantial work in their track record?)
Well, you need also people who pass on the information ("passeurs" indeed,
in French), and who do not necessarily 'do things' themselves (this was an
'oratio pro domo' ;-)
>
>> But I agree with Pajé, we should also look past these protocols of
>> vested interests whichever way they turn out. That means taking our
>> own
>> scenarios seriously. My 'end of the Netherlands' story, predicting
>> breakdown in European states because the middle class will pull the
>> plug, demanding better service for its 40% taxes to an empty state
>> that
>> is dressed in Emperors clothes (money and law from EU, sold all
>> services) is getting lots of attention from Dutch policy makers. They
>> get itchy. There is just something funny in the air. Votes swing in
>> months, people are fed up with politicians. So why not bet on that
>> breakdown and take that as a framework for projects in the coming five
>> years?
Q&D: Rob is probably right here - for the wrong reasons.
> Aren't things hard to get born and hard to die?
> Each time i hear "this tech is dead", like CDs or even tape or vinyl,
> i see it outliving many expectation.
> Wouldn't be the same thing with structural political forms?
aka the long tail. But Althusser (?) had a nice description: "structure a
dominance" (aka the Mao-Chinese dialectic of 70-30% - anything)
> actually, the middle path is certainly my wished way:
> make things that work now
> but could outlive the current set of societal patterns that i don't
> find really positive.
Hear Hear
just a few Zimbucks in the bucket...
patrizio and Diiiinooos!
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