Dear Armin,
I dont know which country you live in, but I reccomend you look beyond it
for a minute
If you ever have time and the initiative, pls. take a trip to Pakistan and I
will personally show the option out of decades of repression that access to
technology, internet, television, mobile phone is bringing about here and
how we are trying to counter the tirade of anti Pakistan propaganda that has
blocked us from the rest of the world with self made guerilla styled youtube
videos, protest emails and other sorts of activism
pls.keep inventing
all the best
Atteqa Malik
On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 1:15 PM, Armin Medosch <armin@???> wrote:
> Hi Patrice
>
> thanks for your reply, but I think you are slightly misunderstanding me.
> there is nothing really so personal about my disgruntlement. and I also
> have nor particular issue with AB. I think most people know what to
> think of him without me making any special suggestions. the point that I
> was trying to make, beyond the one about media artists being in their
> majority spineless, apolitical and useless beings, was, in a bigger and
> more important context, regarding the internet: the conservatives have
> won. maybe i have taken especially long to come to that recognition, as
> geert lovink already in 1996 diagnosed the end of the short summer of
> the net - and since then has done very well on a continuing spell of
> negative assessments, but that just as an aside --, now also poor old me
> must come to the conclusion, very unhappily, because I have tried hard
> to the opposite, that the net is good really only for capitalism,
> control and phising and spamming. that's what it seems to be ideal for.
> everything else still exists but is marginal, it does not really count.
> if we have a conversation here, a sort of chat, which is what bricolist
> is good for, it just confirms our powerlessness.
>
> but in terms of forming 'significant communities', the internet has
> failed. communication is not possible in this medium (yet campaigning
> is, brasilians fight that stupid law - the theoretic level of the
> assessment of the inability of communication must not collide with the
> rela world possibility of doing campaigns). here i must explain a
> facette of my previous posting. I was referring to a particular text,
> 'the inoperative community', by jean-luc nancy, reprinted in the
> 'participation' reader, edited by claire bishop, that we are unable to
> rediscover 'a place of community at once beyond social divisions and
> beyond subordination do technopolitical domination'. a show like
> synthetic times in beijing is media art, devoid of critique, pure
> aestheticism in the service of technopolitical domination. this is the
> dominant tendency nowadays, maybe one of the lesser evils of many
> heteronomic tendencies (using heteronomy here in the sence pof
> castoridis). the second part is that an endevour such as bricolabs
> exposes an inability to create something that would be able to counter
> that tendency. the community is inoperative. thus, without any personal
> disillusionment but as a rather sober assessment out of long term
> observation I must say that the internet as a medium of symmetric two
> way communication - replace 'symmetric' and two-way with 'egalitarian'
> if you like) where 'real' communities with an utopian horizont, has
> failed.
>
> what this means personally for me is that I will have to disengage in
> particular from mailing lists. If I still try to 'communicate' the
> negativity in my message makes me appear like a disgruntled bofo. I will
> switch to broadcast mode like everybody else, most people who use
> mailinglists actually do it in broadcast mode only. this is okay, i will
> learn to live with it.
>
> yet I will not disengage from politics, life, doing things or building
> stuff. Main projects in the near future will be the boat, Motorship
> Franz Feigl, and other autonomous technologies such as solar mesh
> routers and hiveware stuff. I will let you know about things, I have
> told you already where.
>
> I am aware this is quite a long goodbye message for someone whose main
> point is to say I shall not post 'discoursive' posts on mailinglists any
> more, but hey, its an ingrained habit, its like giving up smoking. yet i
> managed to give up smoking two years ago, so I may succed with
> mailinglists as well
>
> best
> armin
>
>
>
> On Sun, 2008-07-06 at 21:15 +0200, Patrice Riemens wrote:
> > Hi Armin,
> >
> > You sound very disgruntled, which is understandable, given the fact that
> > you have invested yourself so much in a field that is indeed not paying
> > you very well in return. But may be you should be more thankfull to ...
> > yourself, and be proud of all what you have done (it was a good wat to
> > think and reflect and even put up all kinds of projects I'd say).
> >
> > If that can be a consolation, I always found Andreas Breukman (as Walter
> > vdC pronounces his name, which also sounds like 'broken' ;-) a MLA (and
> > that does not stand for ' Member of the Legislative Assembly) , pompous
> > and insufferably arrogant, so his value judgement count for little. If he
> > pronounces something or someone dead, rush to see the show lest you'd
> miss
> > something valuable!
> >
> > That holds unfortunately true for a lot of other people, and what regards
> > the lack of support from the members of various cultural aeropages, don't
> > forget that their principal concern, even if it was not their original
> > one, is to pay the next instaltment on their mortgage. And besides they
> > have also lived through their own brand of desilusion.
> >
> > Leave the Bricolab list if you want, or stay on lurking. It is a true
> > 'Macedoine', so there is everyting and then some other things there, and
> > maybe something interesting sometimes. I do not thing Bricolab aims at
> > anything concrete in particular, even if some pretend otherwise. So there
> > is also little merit & purpose leaving it.
> >
> > Cheers for now from Groningen,
> > patrizio and Diiiinooos!
> >
> >
> >
> > > hi
> > >
> > > castoriadis is also a main theory hero of mine. re: this discussion
> > > about political responsibility: last week I raised the issue on the
> > > spectre list that there is a major media art show, 300 works, synthetic
> > > times, in beijing, which looks very apolitical, very sterile, a real
> > > pitty that this should be the way that chinese people should encounter
> > > media art as a first big showing (however, i have trust chinese people
> > > will find their way round the hype and discover more interesting
> > > things). secondly, ISEA is being held in singapore, an efficient
> regime.
> > > my first posting which was inspoired was rebutted by andreas broeckman,
> > > always a master of putting the fog of moral relativism over everything,
> > > alex adriaansen ina strangely apologetic and defensive email, and then
> > > melind arackham who orgaqnises the australian contingent, it seems. my
> > > initial posting addressed, albeit in very short form, the political
> > > meaning of going to a capitalist one party state like china or
> > > singapore, and on the other hand that democratic countries become more
> > > and more like china and singapore. anyway, besides a couple of
> > > supportive PM I got no public support. my second email the on spectre
> > > was shit, I lost it a bit then, did not know iuf to be firm or funny or
> > > take the piss, well, this happens. but anyway, such an event makes me
> > > feel very alone. thsi so called field of media art, which andreas
> > > broeckman says does not exist and which was my home for 25 years I can
> > > really see that it is mroe and more inhabited only by careerist
> > > arseholes, sorry, i can only say it this way. very often i have been
> one
> > > of the few to raise critical issues, but this has not done me any good
> > > in ym public standing.
> > >
> > > i also find that bricolist does not go anywhere. so i feel like
> > > withdrawing really. on a very deep level maybe public discourse is the
> > > best and at the same time only thing that we can do for each other, to
> > > know that we are not alone, to address a community which is in our
> mind.
> > > it feels like this has become less and less possible ion those online
> > > forums, no matter if they are lists or wikis or whatsoever.
> > >
> > > for the time being you can find me on thenextlayer.org
> > >
> > > disengagingly yours
> > > armin
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, 2008-07-06 at 13:37 -0300, Çtalker wrote:
> > >> Castoriadis & Habemas became my theoretical heroes, goog substitutes
> for
> > >> my teenage ones, Marx & Lenin.
> > >>
> > >> I got to thank a lot PajÃ(c) (aka Paulo Lara) for the comments. What
> leads
> > >> me to remember the brazilians here: what will we do against that
> > >> thief´s
> > >> project of law? Why this matter is not in the centre of our lists'
> > >> arguments nowadays?
> > >>
> > >> (Moçada, por que a gente tá tão parado e não está se mobilizando
> > >> contra
> > >> o projeto do Azeredo?)
> > >>
> > >> HugÇtalkre!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Patrice Riemens escreveu:
> > >> > Just read a little article about Castoriadis, the Greek-French
> > >> political
> > >> > philosopher:
> > >> >
> http://www.liberation.fr/culture/livre/333175.FR.php?mode=PRINTERFRIENDLY
> > >> > (for those of you who read French)
> > >> > That reminded me the political problem of the moment. We know that
> > >> > politicians want to delink themselves from politics, but so want
> their
> > >> > electorate. All 'Ãdiotes'! (in Greek)
> > >> >
> > >> > cheers, p+2D!
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > Brico mailing list
> > >> > Brico@???
> > >> > http://lists.dyne.org/mailman/listinfo/brico
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Brico mailing list
> > >> Brico@???
> > >> http://lists.dyne.org/mailman/listinfo/brico
> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Brico mailing list
> > > Brico@???
> > > http://lists.dyne.org/mailman/listinfo/brico
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
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